Tricky spot for me

sean c · #1 02-07-2007, 11:32 PM

1/2 6 max. SB tag over plenty of hands and BB unknown.

Pre flop: 1 fold, i raise A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 folds, sb and bb call.

Flop(3 players 6sb): T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
sb checks, bb checks and i plan on taking one desperation stab at this pot and bet, sb calls and bb folds.

Turn(2 players 4bb): K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
sb checks, i improve and bet, sb check/raises my butt. What to do?

cold_cash · #2 02-07-2007, 11:51 PM

I'd call twice and hate it, unless another club comes off, then I'd call once and hate it.

With a big hand I would expect him to bet out on the flop.

With a good/medium hand I would expect him to checkraise the flop.

You're going to be drawing dead a lot of the time, but I think you'll also see weaker Kings with a flush draw or two-pair that you can counterfeit 20% of the time.

maniacut · #3 02-08-2007, 04:52 AM

so many combo draws he can have here with a good club. call down easy

Zeldark · #4 02-08-2007, 05:14 AM

I don't know if it's just me, but at my stakes (.5/1-1/2), I often see people slowplay the flop with flushes. This board is very coordinated, and the last card can still screw us over if we're behind. The pot in this situation is small enough that I don't want to bother springing a trap (or a represented one) to pick it up. Since we're content with picking up the pot now with a turn bet, and we'd be calling down if raised, doesn't it make more sense to take the free card, keep the spot call and not put in money when we may have the worst of it? Is this thinking incorrect?

I admit that
a) I do sometimes bet again on the turn.
b) all we've done was move our difficult decision to the river, but the variance of the hand should be minimized, no?

Zeldark · #5 02-08-2007, 06:04 AM

For what it's worth, if you didn't figure it out "still screw us over if we're behind" is supposed to be "still screw us over if we're ahead." Missed the editing window.

Man of Means · #6 02-08-2007, 08:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Since we're content with picking up the pot now with a turn bet, and we'd be calling down if raised, doesn't it make more sense to take the free card, keep the spot call and not put in money when we may have the worst of it? Is this thinking incorrect?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's certainly an option when heads-up. But sometimes you hope to be checkraised in this type of situation by someone who has K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something as weak as 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

97 has to be severely discounted as does K8 and K6; this opponent is TAG. KT probably would've checkraised the flop. So are we going to check behind when only 88/66 and the occasional flush have us beat?

At the same time I have to wonder what hands are coldcalling preflop and smooth calling the flop.

threads13 · #7 02-08-2007, 09:19 AM

I call down here unless another club comes. This isn't necessarily a made flush or straight. It could be two-pair, a set, or even a spiked pair of K's.

This isn't very taggy of SB to be smooth calling in the SB though.

Atrophy · #8 02-08-2007, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At the same time I have to wonder what hands are coldcalling preflop and smooth calling the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one cold called preflop.

Str8Fish · #9 02-08-2007, 10:47 AM

I just call down. What exactly do you mean by TAG at 6-max? What does he cold-call with in the SB? I don't see KT often coldcalled by TAGs... maybe KTs? KQ is a possibility... AK is definitely a 3-bet. TT,88,66 maybe... TT is only a slight possibility I'd say. Suited crap? He could be on a str8/flush draw and tried just pushing you off the hand here on the turn. Who knows. I'd say that there are a lot of hands that beat you and that you beat... probably tied in combinations, so I'd just call down.

Str8Fish · #10 02-08-2007, 10:51 AM

Oh sean... I remember reading one of ILP's posts one time in a very similar situation. He had some excellent advice that I think would really apply here. He said if you don't know what you would do if you were check-raised on the turn, just check it through and call a river bet. I think this might be one of those perfect moments, especially since a good player just cold-called preflop and called your flop bet.

Ok, I found it... he was writing that in response to a c/r on the flop:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...74#Post8937079

I dunno... maybe that advice can play here as well.