Live tourneys not worth it anymore because of tax and juice?

[Nicok7]

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I actually really sorta like the 25% withholding for 5k+ cashes. It will have the biggest effect on the small winners who are beating the game but not by enough to handle so much money being pulled out of their bankroll, while leaving the fish and the big winners relatively unscathed. People will obviously have to adjust their bankroll requirements upwards but really are you going to complain about playing with a lower RoR?

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lol

[Nicok7]

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Please explain to me how something that forces winning players (even moderate winning players) out of the game is a bad thing. They don't have a high enough ROI to keep playing a year of tourneys with 25% withholding so they play fewer events. The big fish aren't affected much because they rarely win/cash and are unlikely to get forced out of action because they're playing from their own pockets, not their profits. Big winners will adjust by having bigger bankrolls and will enjoy softer fields because the moderate winners are gone leaving the fish and the pros.

If you're a solid MTT player there are good sideeffects of this law. It sucks for the small winners and the guys in the big cash games (because the fish who wins a million bucks in a tourney has 1/4 of that withheld), but not for the MTT pro, of which many people in this forum are.


edit: I should clarify that I mispoke in my first post. Idon't really "like" this withholding, but there are definite benefits to it.

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double lol

[ZJ123]

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I hear there's no actual law that forces you to pay taxes....prove me wrong?

Government scare tactics to pay off the interest on the money they buy from private money production system.

That's right...we RENT our money from private bankers with interest....so tell me how that's going to get us out of debt as a nation...(US)

Flame away [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Todd Terry]

The revenue procedure just promulgated by the IRS regarding this issue contains the following language:
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6. Waiver Of Liability Under Section 3402 And Waiver Of Other Penalties Or Additions To Tax.
The IRS will not assert any liability for additional tax or additions to tax for violations of any withholding obligation with respect to amounts paid to winners of poker tournaments under section 3402, provided that the poker tournament sponsor meets all of the requirements for information reporting under section 3402(q) and the regulations thereunder.


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This means that as long as the casinos report, via a W-2G, all winnings over $5000, they will not be penalized for not withholding taxes from winnings over $5000. I would predict that, in light of this, most casinos will report but not withhold. It seems that the IRS is trying to get all casinos to report cashes over $5K (which many currently do not), and threw in the withholding position (which obviously no casinos agree with since none of them currently withhold, and the Revenue Procedure is not a change in the law, it is simply a statement about the IRS' belief as to what the law requires) for fun. Hopefully no withholding will take place.

[THAY3R]

These posts re: taxes really piss me off. You should be paying taxes anyways, and if you are this doesn't really effect you.(Unless you're being backed which could cause some inconveniences)All of these posts just scream "I don't pay my taxes but now I kind of have to pay a little wahhhhh" Just because we have a profession that is relatively new and hazy in the tax law doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes on your earned income.

And FWIW I am extremely anti government and also dislike the current government but that doesn't mean you should be able to enjoy the benefits of living here for free while passing the tax burden onto others.

[MJBuddy]

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These posts re: taxes really piss me off. You should be paying taxes anyways, and if you are this doesn't really effect you.(Unless you're being backed which could cause some inconveniences)All of these posts just scream "I don't pay my taxes but now I kind of have to pay a little wahhhhh" Just because we have a profession that is relatively new and hazy in the tax law doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes on your earned income.

And FWIW I am extremely anti government and also dislike the current government but that doesn't mean you should be able to enjoy the benefits of living here for free while passing the tax burden onto others.

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QFT

[Todd Terry]

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These posts re: taxes really piss me off. You should be paying taxes anyways, and if you are this doesn't really effect you.(Unless you're being backed which could cause some inconveniences)All of these posts just scream "I don't pay my taxes but now I kind of have to pay a little wahhhhh" Just because we have a profession that is relatively new and hazy in the tax law doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes on your earned income.

And FWIW I am extremely anti government and also dislike the current government but that doesn't mean you should be able to enjoy the benefits of living here for free while passing the tax burden onto others.

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There was another thread on this, 25% withholding can have a potentially huge effect on your cashflow during the year unless your live tournament ROI is enormous, even if it doesn't affect your ultimate tax liability. This matters a lot to people who rely on poker to pay their bills. Accordingly, I don't think discussing the implications of this recently promulgated Revenue Procedure implies in any way that someone does not pay their taxes.

[THAY3R]

Hmmm, prop bet on whether or not OP pays taxes?

And yea, we don't even have to settle on any terms, just feel free to send however much you want to me on Stars(THAY3R)

[BadgerPro]

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These posts re: taxes really piss me off. You should be paying taxes anyways, and if you are this doesn't really effect you.(Unless you're being backed which could cause some inconveniences)All of these posts just scream "I don't pay my taxes but now I kind of have to pay a little wahhhhh" Just because we have a profession that is relatively new and hazy in the tax law doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes on your earned income.

And FWIW I am extremely anti government and also dislike the current government but that doesn't mean you should be able to enjoy the benefits of living here for free while passing the tax burden onto others.

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There was another thread on this, 25% withholding can have a potentially huge effect on your cashflow during the year unless your live tournament ROI is enormous, even if it doesn't affect your ultimate tax liability. This matters a lot to people who rely on poker to pay their bills. Accordingly, I don't think discussing the implications of this recently promulgated Revenue Procedure implies in any way that someone does not pay their taxes.

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I don't get this. So you're saying that some people can't afford to have the 25% taken out of their winnings at the time of the tournament but are going to miraculously come up with a huge check at the end of the year to pay their taxes?

[Todd Terry]

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Hmmm, prop bet on whether or not OP pays taxes?

And yea, we don't even have to settle on any terms, just feel free to send however much you want to me on Stars(THAY3R)

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I would take the under on any randomly selected poker player's taxes paid vs. taxes actually owed (if I did prop bets, which I don't). Nevertheless, there are consequences to law-abiding, tax-paying poker pros (all 3 of us) from this new Revenue Procedure.