Taking shots at higher limits

[bernie]

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Great post, and very well agreed bernie, thanks...
CDL

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I have no problem with using that 'threshold of pain'. For some, it's 20BBs. Fine. Some it's a bit higher. But understand it should have more factors than simply just the number of bets. One prime factor that is tough is to be totally honest with yourself about your game. On gravy tables, ego can creep in as you know you're better than the mopes on your table, but you just may not be in the right frame of mind to really make it worthwhile.

It also takes some time to get used to going somewhat deep in a game and not having it affect you. Especially if you're not used to that deep of swings. One thing that really helps is digging out of one of those sometime. It kind of proves to yourself that, just because you're stuck, you can come out of it. Also, when you play a long session, mid length sessions don't really seem that long.

When you move up, the monetary value can affect you because it will be bigger swing monetarily. Say all of a sudden a normal swing is like 1/3 of what your roll was at your previous level. Now you see that all the time it took to build that roll, that much is gone in that short of time. That can screw with you a little bit. Which is one reason it can be tough to make big jumps in limits.

But what's funny is once you get used to playing a bigger game, you'll likely find that in the lower games, you'll go in a lot deeper than you did before and it won't bother you as much.

I don't see anything wrong with a stop-loss limit. I use it as a checkpoint. But understand, if you're playing well and in a good game, it doesn't matter when you're next hand comes.(Feeney has a great essay on this in Inside the Poker Mind, iirc) (Simplified)Example: If you play 3 sessions of say, 2 hours each. Basically the table texure is the same in all 3. You make 20BBs in the first, then lose 10 in the 2nd, then make 15 in the 3rd you end up +25BBs. Now, you could've easily went through that swing in a single 6 hour session(which can easily happen). You just extended it out over 3 sessions. No matter how you chopped up those 6 hours, the result is still the same. Even 2 sessions of 3 hours each. You cannot run from the swings. You will always play to your winrate(even though that fluctuates). This is why, if you're a winning player, the more time you put in, the more you make. Regardless of whether you're actually winning your current session or not.

I think Negreanu did an article way back about playing hours and not results that was a pretty good read. He probably has it on his site.

b

[derdo]

loose low limit b&m games have a high variance so it is not uncommon to play perfectly and be down like 30BB. Playing optimally in these games increases your variance. If you are never 20-30BB loser than your hourly rate will be half of what it really can be. Rather than analyzing session results, i think it is a good idea to analyze the big hands won/lost as a check point during play. Playing too many few hands depending on the table is harder to analyze but that's another thing that should be considered.

[bernie]

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If you are never 20-30BB loser than your hourly rate will be half of what it really can be.

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How does this have anything to do with your hourly rate? Time is time, hours are hours no matter when you put in the hours.

b

[Big Poppa Smurf]

cdlarmore,


often times the games you will have the biggest swings in will be the best games. More fish playing like idiots (especially in limit) equals more variance so bigger swings.

[the_casino_kid]

variance is a big part of poker....if you give up then your just part of the 80% of losers...sure its rough but if your a winning player then dont worry you know you are and just play on.. you will win in the long run and thats poker

[killa]

I used to buy in for 30BB live, but then got used to buying in for 20BB online, which is the default buy in on pokerstars, and started doing it live. Plus I'm pretty poor, so sometimes that's all i have. it seems to be enough for me to be able to tell whether or not i'm going to make any money at a particluar table. I can't really remember getting down 20BB at a table and turning it around into a winning session at that table. Does this mean that I'm playing too tight, or that I'm not willing to take the risks necessary to be a winning player?

thank you

[Chino987]

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I used to buy in for 30BB live, but then got used to buying in for 20BB online, which is the default buy in on pokerstars, and started doing it live. Plus I'm pretty poor, so sometimes that's all i have. it seems to be enough for me to be able to tell whether or not i'm going to make any money at a particluar table. I can't really remember getting down 20BB at a table and turning it around into a winning session at that table. Does this mean that I'm playing too tight, or that I'm not willing to take the risks necessary to be a winning player?

thank you

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hey, why are you playing with what looks like your life savings on the table? thats a recipe for disaster man

[ELCowboy]

Same amount of BB. Sometimes more. Either way I usually buy in for 13-20 BB.

[schnukums]

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It should be noted that Frond is speaking about a B & M Game, on the internet i can see buying in for 40bb, specifically because you get triple the amount of hands and a lot more aggressive players...

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Agreed many bm players will carry this in pocket but you never see people buying in for 40bb. 2/4 - 4/8you see most people buyin for 100 some for 200 at 4/8 but 100 seems pretty standard.

[Xhad]

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Over my 3 years of B & M Playing, I have never recovered after a 30 bb slide.

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Really? I go like once every months and I've recovered from 30 BB slides 2 times last year.

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I was once in a game where literally every hand was capped preflop for something like 6 hours; I don't think I won a single hand for the first 4 or so (I was nut peddling, got an unusually high proportion of high pairs and lost with all of them). I ended up dropping 40-50BBs, then having a 100BB upswing. I shudder to think about what happens to people with stop losses in that spot.