Two AQ hands in a 1+.20 18man

ItalianFX · #1 05-10-2007, 02:40 PM

Play here was absolutely tight-passive. The players can be categorized as really bad.

I just want to check on these two hands, with my reasoning to see if I'm correct in my thinking.

I've been playing in more pots than anybody, but I've really had legitimate hands. I don't know if I had to show down any hands at all, but I haven't been pulling any bluffs. I don't know if my image matters or not, but I've been the aggressor at the table.

Hand 1:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t1900
UTG+1: t1230
MP1: t985
MP2: t3225
CO: t1580
Button: t2965
SB: t175
BB: t1440

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero calls t30 (pot was t45), UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t30 (pot was t75), MP2 calls t30 (pot was t105), CO calls t30 (pot was t135), Button calls t30 (pot was t165), SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t195, 6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t195

I limp because I'm out of position. If I raise, I'm going to get several callers. Not too many people fold to raises at the 15/30 level. I've read that AQ isn't a great hand to play out of position - maybe I didn't read that - I don't know, but it's sticking in my head for some reason.

2nd Hand:

This hand was the very next hand after the hand above.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1230
UTG+1: t955
MP1: t3195
MP2: t1550
CO: t2935
Button: t160
SB: t1410
Hero: t2065

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls t30 (pot was t45), UTG+1 calls t30 (pot was t75), MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30 (pot was t105), CO calls t30 (pot was t135), 2 folds, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t165, 5 players)
Hero bets t165, UTG calls t165 (pot was t330), UTG+1 calls t165 (pot was t495), MP2 raises all-in t1520, CO folds, Hero raises all-in t2035

I just check because of the awful amount of limpers. I'm going to be out of position for this hand, but if I hit the flop, I'll be in position to take the aggression. I then get a push behind me and I call because I think there are more ways for him to have a lesser Queen, or a straight draw over TT or QQ. I doubt he even has TT or QQ because those hands might raise preflop. Good or Bad?

TheFoxNL · #2 05-10-2007, 03:23 PM

i like the first one

dont like the 2nd one you dont want people to limp in just because of flops like this

people will limp with TQ and theres a good chance that somebody has it

Mingdu · #3 05-10-2007, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i like the first one

dont like the 2nd one you dont want people to limp in just because of flops like this

people will limp with TQ and theres a good chance that somebody has it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, bet 150 in the second hand preflop and you're gold!!

nhs

Sherman · #4 05-10-2007, 04:36 PM

I make my standard raise PF in both of these spots. People are [censored] terrible. They call with any ace. You dominate nearly all of those hands. Especially if you characterize your opponents as loose/passive! If they were tight aggressive, I suppose limping (or even folding if they are that tough) is okay. But absolutely no way in a $1 tournament. Raise Please! TPTK or TP2ndK is the nuts against these guys. Build the pot and double up when they can't fold. If the flop misses you can just check/fold because you are better than them.

Edit: Oh yeah. Stop playing games with a 20% rake. Learn how to pushbot and play the same games just as turbos! If your only rolled for $1.00 tourneys that is fine. Just play the $1.10 turbos. Increased volume and idiots who don't know how to pushbot properly = greater $EV!

All_In_Olly · #5 05-10-2007, 04:56 PM

You need to raise both hands pre flop.

With big cards like AQ you don't like lots of players being in the pot and so need to make them pay.
Maybe if you miss the flop you'll wish you just called or checked but in the long run you'll be better off.

jackgibbs · #6 05-10-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Oh yeah. Stop playing games with a 20% rake. Learn how to pushbot and play the same games just as turbos! If your only rolled for $1.00 tourneys that is fine. Just play the $1.10 turbos. Increased volume and idiots who don't know how to pushbot properly = greater $EV!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of asking about this. I've been playing the 1.20 45 mans mostly with a decent ITM percentage but I can't seem to stay ahead of the rake. Are these things even beatable? Is it worth taking a shot at the higher buy-ins with a less than optimal roll, or stick with the turbos? /hijack.

Sherman · #7 05-10-2007, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Oh yeah. Stop playing games with a 20% rake. Learn how to pushbot and play the same games just as turbos! If your only rolled for $1.00 tourneys that is fine. Just play the $1.10 turbos. Increased volume and idiots who don't know how to pushbot properly = greater $EV!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of asking about this. I've been playing the 1.20 45 mans mostly with a decent ITM percentage but I can't seem to stay ahead of the rake. Are these things even beatable? Is it worth taking a shot at the higher buy-ins with a less than optimal roll, or stick with the turbos? /hijack.

[/ QUOTE ]

In short, I think they are beatable only b/c the play is so terrible. Personally, I recommend playing the turbos (especially the $3.25 turbos) b/c the rake is lower and I think they are more beatable than the non-turbos. If the $3s are too high, play the $1.10 turbos and learn to pushbot.

ItalianFX · #8 05-10-2007, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Edit: Oh yeah. Stop playing games with a 20% rake. Learn how to pushbot and play the same games just as turbos! If your only rolled for $1.00 tourneys that is fine. Just play the $1.10 turbos. Increased volume and idiots who don't know how to pushbot properly = greater $EV!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just playing as a friendly game with BlueEcho. I normally play the $3 turbos and have done well. I like to mix it up every now and then. I like to play the $1 sometimes when I have an idea and want to try it out.

Zychion · #9 05-10-2007, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I raise, I'm going to get several callers with far worse hands . Not too many people fold to raises at the 15/30 level and they will stack off with hands I frequently have crushed. . I've read that AQ(s) isn't a great hand to play out of position against sentient beings, but this is a $1.20/18 and the vast majority of opponents are mouth-breathers who are incapable of simultaneously wiping drool from their chin as they click the call button with J5o - maybe I didn't read that - I don't know, but it's sticking in my head for some reason.

2nd hand is a mandatory raise too. Make them pay to see the flop while you most almost certainly have the best of it. Take advantage of these people while you can, DEATH TO LIMPERS.

ItalianFX · #10 05-10-2007, 07:05 PM

Nice way to put it Zychion.