obvious fold on A high board, right?

[Dhani]

$1-$2limit on Pokerstars.

Hero is in SB with black kings.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP 3 bets, 1 fold, Button cold calls 3 bets, Hero...
1) Would you say that this is always an easy cap? I say no even with pocket kings in the SB.
...Hero cold calls 3 bets,BB folds, UTG+1 calls.
13 bets to the flop.
A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG+1 leads out, MP calls, button calls,
HERO SHOULD FOLD and he does.
2) I know the pot is big, but what would the point of me calling down here to see 1 of 3 other players have an ace?

[KitCloudkicker]

there is no logical reason to not cap preflop.

and yes fold the flop.

well, actually, now that i think about it, a flop fold may not be so clear, we might have odds for a 2 outer. id have to calculate it.

[Dhani]

But, If I cap preflop, then I don't get a chance to see if UTG+1 caps with AA or 2 red Kings, plus it's awfully weak to cap from the SB and then have that big ol ace show up on the flop, or even any broadway with the exception of a King.

This is a precarious hand. Anyone else have a strong view on this?

[mikeca]

Do you have any reads on these opponents? Any idea what MP would 3 bet or the button would cold call 3 with?

In the absence of reads, pre-flop you figure to win this hand 40% or more of the time. If you can get 3 players to call your cap bet, why not cap it?

As played, I don’t think you have pot odds to call a 2 outer here, so fold is probably best.

[shane88888]

1. This is an easy cap. Push your edge.

2. With KK on an A-high board, getting ~14.5:1 and considering implied odds, you could justify a peel if you feel you'll get crazy action. The problem is, the hand most likely to give crazy action is AK, which would mean you're drawing to one out. Also, considering three villains have gone 3-bets, AK is a very likely holding.

If my opponents were magnificent spewtards, I'd peel. Otherwise, I'd fold.

[StrictlyStrategy]

[ QUOTE ]
But, If I cap preflop, then I don't get a chance to see if UTG+1 caps with AA or 2 red Kings,

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares. You're getting enormous overlay from everyone else who is like a 14:1 dog against you. Cap preflop. Not remotely close ever in this game. (or honestly probably 75% of online games really)


Fold flop, sigh, try not to tilt.

Oh yeah, there's one other hand that's likely to give you action if you turn a K. It isn't AK.

[James.]

working backwards.

you're getting 16-1 with very little threat of a raise behind you. you'll easily makeup two big bets on the turn and river should you spike your K. easy peel on the flop.

as for preflop, yeah it's great to see if blah, blah, blah caps and wait for an ace, blah, blah, blah, but multiway you are giving up WAY TOO MUCH not capping KK in that situation. if you cap preflop, you show an instant profit. you also define your hand which makes it easier to get away from if an ace *does* flop. most of the time it doesn't. this sounds a bit scared, and your reasoning is flawed.

the long term value of the ancillary benefits you mentioned are far outweighed by the immediate value given up in not capping pf. HU it's acceptable because you only give up a sb pf, but gain more in deception value. multiway, it sucks.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, cap preflop, as said... flop peel depends on some reads, is it a tight/passive player betting into the field after a cap? Helps folding. Maniacs? Helps peeling.

[BigBadBabar]

cap pf

[Ricks]

You are probably tired of hearing this; always cap kings. Do not worry about aces at this point because there are many hands that play this way that are not AA. Don't worry about an ace on the flop. the probability that no over-card to your KK will come on the flop is better than 77% and by the river it is 55% (I know, it seems more than that but I got this here) . You are playing weak/tight and will have to work your way out of that.

This isn't that obvious of a flop fold. You are getting 16:1 and are closing the action. The odds of you turning a king are 22.5:1 so you would need another 3.5 BB of implied odds on the big streets. You also have to consider that you are ahead here about 10% of the time.