How to counter the idiot at the table?

[Shandrax]

Lately I have run into a weird type of player. He will play complete trash and raise on every street. The worst thing that could happen (and it happend to me quite often) is to get caught inbetween this guy and someone with a more or less legitimate hand.

Since every pot gets blown up, it's almost impossible to play a hand like top pair for example. Once the pot contains a ton of bets, everyone gets the odds to stick around and draw against you.

Just a small reminder, if two players sandwhich a guy intentionally and blow the pot out of proportion, it's collusion.

Now with that complete retard on the table, the outcome is basically the same, just some sort of unintentional collusion.

I have no idea how to counter that and I certainly have the feeling that this type of player hurts me more than I could profit from him, so I usually leave such tables.

Any better ideas?


Edit: Here is an example:
Party Poker ($1/$2 limit). Hand converted by Check Raised hand converter

Preflop (9 players): Hero is MP2 with
UTG calls [2.5:1].
1 fold.
MP1 calls [3.5:1].
HERO 2 bets.
3 folds.
SB calls [4.67:1].
BB calls [8:1].
UTG calls [9:1].
MP1 calls [10:1].

Flop (10 small bets ($10) in pot, 5 players):

SB bets.
BB folds [11:1].
UTG calls [12:1].
MP1 2 bets.
HERO 3 bets.
SB calls [9.5:1].
UTG calls [10.5:1].
MP1 calls [22:1].

Turn (11 bets ($22) in pot, 4 players):

SB bets.
UTG calls [13:1].
MP1 calls [14:1].
HERO calls [15:1].

River (15 bets ($30) in pot, 4 players):

SB bets.
UTG folds [16:1].
MP1 2 bets.
HERO calls [10:1].
SB calls [21:1].

Summary:


MP1 has a pair of Deuces [ ]

SB has Two pair, Kings and Nines [ ] and won $41.00 (20.5bb)

<u>HERO has a pair of Tens [ ]</u>

[Hass]

Sit as close as you can to his left and try to isolate him by re-raising his raises. This will help your top pair hands hold up more often.

Also, remember that against this type of player makes small pairs go up in value and suited connectors go down in value.

[slcseas]

You should NEVER, EVER leave a game with this type of player IMO. You are costing yourself alot of money if you do.

Look at it this way.. say the pots are inflating to 4x the size they would typically be at this level. That simply means you need to win 1/4th as often as you typically do to maintain approximately the same earn.

I know how tempting it is to want to get into as many hands as possible with the moron because you know you can outplay him. The better option is rock solid hand selection and fast play pre-flop. Raise and Re-raise, get as much money as possible in when you know you have the best hand with a big PP.

In games like this you need to be weary of your position. Play more hands when you have the CO or button, and less in EP and MP. You can call a pre-flop raise with a wide range on the button, because if you hit the flop hard you have massive implied odds against multiple opponents plus a wealth of information to use to make your decisions.

Don't try to get fancy on the flop. TP &amp; TPTK are marginal against mulitple opponents. You either want a big draw (ie nut flush + overcards, OE straight + flush), a set , or two pair to go past the flop. Remember the old saying, don't get involved in a big pot without a big hand.

[Webster]

[ QUOTE ]
You should NEVER, EVER leave a game with this type of player IMO. You are costing yourself alot of money if you do.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is just silly talk.

the problem is not THAT player bu the rest of the table. you can not isolate the maniac IF everybody ELSE is playing into him. All they are doing is increasing HIS odds.

Personally - if I can not isolate hit without the entire table joining in - I'll leave. not worth the hassel.

What happens NORMALLY is the IQ of the table will drop and all of a sudden good players will start bluffing the bluffer and losing to him. Then all of a sudden the nice table where you have everybody read becaomes a random mess.

If you don't like the conditions - leave. NEVER feel you HAVE to play with a maniac.

[jackaaron]

The OP is not saying that the K9 player (SB) played his hand incorrectly, or like a donk, correct?

[AKQJ10]

I don't think so -- preflop is bad (just fold K9 for 1.5 bets OOP), and calling two more bets on the flop is dubious, but the K9 is not the "idiot" in question.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so -- preflop is bad (just fold K9 for 1.5 bets OOP), and calling two more bets on the flop is dubious, but the K9 is not the "idiot" in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing way too tight against this guy.

Tight doesn't mean just preflop.

[slcseas]

If the maniac is blowing up pot sizes and people dumb themselves down to his level, why would anyone leave that game? What I offered was obviously my personal opinion, but a loose game like this is +EV for a tight player. Make adjustments, tighten up hand selection. Get paid off big on one or two hands.

If he isn't comfortable then he can certainly leave. But maybe, just maybe.... he could make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game. It's a relatively new and revolutionary concept, but it's really starting to catch on around here.

[AKQJ10]

"make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game" -- Yes, but you don't do that at the same stakes that you play at as an already accomplished player.

In other words, if OP is comfortable playing the $1 game without a maniac, but doesn't play well against a maniac, he should try to find 25c or smaller games with maniacs.

No joke, even a little play money practice might be OK, just to remind him that TAG play gets the money when everyone else is just spewing chips. But finding a maniac to play against at 25c would be far better.

[Shandrax]

[ QUOTE ]
If the maniac is blowing up pot sizes and people dumb themselves down to his level, why would anyone leave that game? What I offered was obviously my personal opinion, but a loose game like this is +EV for a tight player. Make adjustments, tighten up hand selection. Get paid off big on one or two hands.

If he isn't comfortable then he can certainly leave. But maybe, just maybe.... he could make an adjustment and attempt to improve his game. It's a relatively new and revolutionary concept, but it's really starting to catch on around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

By "improving" I assume you mean to limp with A-Ks UTG in order to make a flush with 9 guys in the pot for 125 BB. Yes, that may be an adjustment. On the other side it is tough to play T-T any different, because if I just call and play them passively I can fold to any overcard. Since I doubt that this is the correct way to play such a pocket pair, further "improvement" in this area is out of question. You certainly can't improve against bad beats anyways...