Interesting analysis of how Dems should address immigration

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Wynton,

Would you have any problem changing from jus soli to jus sanguinis?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you asking whether I think that this country should declare that, anyone who is born to or related to an American citizen is automatically a citizen, as opposed to declaring that anyone born within our borders is a citizen?

As a practical matter, does it make that much difference?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wynton,

Would you have any problem changing from jus soli to jus sanguinis?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you asking whether I think that this country should declare that, anyone who is born to or related to an American citizen is automatically a citizen, as opposed to declaring that anyone born within our borders is a citizen?

As a practical matter, does it make that much difference?

[/ QUOTE ]


How can it not make a difference? With citizenship only being bestowed if one or both parents were citizens, then the illegal immigrants have no sob story argument that the heartless gov't is deporting the mothers of underage citizens. I'm not saying it would significantly cut down on illegal immigration by itself, but it would remove a lot of the attractiveness of same if they knew they couldn't use the citizenship of children born here to try to leverage into legal residency for themselves. Should a pregnant woman who goes into sudden labor during an international flight layover be able to give birth here and that child magically be considered a US citizen as a result of same?

[Wynton]

Bluffthis,

Frankly, I haven't given your distinction much thought; you may well have a valid point, though. Nor have I come up with my own policy preferences, even though I find the politics of the issue very interesting.

I do have a couple of general attitudes or predispositions, which concededly are not based upon any genuine study. As somewhat of an article of faith, I tend to believe that immigrants enrich this country and contribute more than their fair share. I'd rather err on the side of allowing more immigrants in legally than restricting them. And I doubt that immigrants (legal or illegal) are really stealing many jobs from our citizens. Once more, these are my predispositions, and I have no data to cite in support.

But I certainly recognize the need to patrol our borders, limit immigration numbers at some point, and enforce our own laws. The laws are absolutely necessary and to ignore them makes a mockery of the system.

One reason I find the politics fun is because I think the issue is genuinely complex. The depressing part is knowing that the major candidates will inevitably address the problem with slogans, rather than any kind of nuance.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps giving foreign aid that actually, you know, aids these countries might be a nice alternative to blowing tons of money on border control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that allowing unrestrained immigration from those countries constitutes foreign aid? Immigration is the subject of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was adressing a really ridiculous argument that you made, which you then read a lot into. I was clarifying my faily relevent stance. I don't think anyone and everyone should be allowed in. However, these people come from a destitute part of the world and enter this country by and large to work long hours for low pay at jobs Americans don't want. Demonizing them seems contrary to the principles of this nation. I think you make it hard for people to enter this country, and those that do, you tip your hat and just let it be.

[BluffTHIS!]

xorbie,

Please don't trot out that BS emotional rhetoric like "demonizing" them and stuff. I said in my first post in this thread that I am in favor of more liberal immigration policies than a lot of people and I mean that. However the bottom line is that I think it is *we americans* who should decide immigration policies instead of illegal immigrants trying to decide it for us by fiat, and then some Americans trying to justify that. I.E. while I'm in favor of allowing "more" immigrants in than most conservatives, I believe it is *we americans* who should decide just how big that "more" is.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
xorbie,

Please don't trot out that BS emotional rhetoric like "demonizing" them and stuff. I said in my first post in this thread that I am in favor of more liberal immigration policies than a lot of people and I mean that. However the bottom line is that I think it is *we americans* who should decide immigration policies instead of illegal immigrants trying to decide it for us by fiat, and then some Americans trying to justify that. I.E. while I'm in favor of allowing "more" immigrants in than most conservatives, I believe it is *we americans* who should decide just how big that "more" is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with the idea of trying to even define what "more" is. I don't really have any fundamental problem with illegal immigration, if they think it's worth the risk to get the meager reward, then by all means try it.

Also, I wasn't trying to imply that you were demonizing anyone, that was just my general stance on the illegal immigration issue. The demonization is just what happens (it seems) whenever you try to talk to most conservatives about it. As if, of all things, it's the Mexicans who are destroying this country.