Lost vs Redargoe

sauce123 · #1 09-15-2007, 04:27 PM

Ok, so i was very lost in this turn spot. relevant history is ive been 3betting red an incredible amnt basically just cause ive been getting strong cards every time he opens. hes been playing back quite a bit. i also have been double barreling a lot of turns in uncoordinated spots like Q84 r where he check/calls OOP or on paired boards like this (though this one is a little more dangerous than most). I also checked top pair on the turn once today and picked up a river bet from his mid pair fwiw. what to do? And if i do call (or shove) whats my line on a few rivers...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($2971)
CO ($1328.90)
Button ($1970)
SB ($3111)
BB ($6609)
UTG ($2000)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $70, 3 folds, BB calls $50.

Flop: ($150) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $120, BB calls $120.

Turn: ($390) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $300, BB raises to $767,

sauce123 · #2 09-15-2007, 04:28 PM

Ok, so I decided to call the turn. I don't often see red making big bluffs, and I was kind of thinking he might be making a free sd play with say ATs, JTs etc. what now?

Hero calls $467.

River: ($1924) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $5652 (All-In)

fslexcduck · #3 09-15-2007, 04:29 PM

I hate betting this turn with this hand even with your history, and given that you did here I'd probably just fold.

Hoopster81 · #4 09-15-2007, 04:31 PM

I don't hate a turn check here in general, and especially if you feel like he is due to play back at you.

I guess you can call and fold to river bets. I assume you would often play a boat like that so he shouldn't be able to automatically put you on a hand like this.

I don't hate a turn fold either.

Hoopster81 · #5 09-15-2007, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I decided to call the turn. I don't often see red making big bluffs, and I was kind of thinking he might be making a free sd play with say ATs, JTs etc. what now?

Hero calls $467.

River: ($1924) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $5652 (All-In)

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting

now I kind of want to call

sauce123 · #6 09-15-2007, 04:34 PM

to those saying turn check, from playing with redargoe i dont think hes particularly apt to turn made hands into bluffs (or semibluff c/r weakish draws on turn). I think we miss some value with a turn check in this spot vs his range. though its close for sure. i guess just because "oh [censored] he checkraised" the answer to this hand shouldn't neccesarily be "duh, dont bet turn".

Hoopster81 · #7 09-15-2007, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
to those saying turn check, from playing with redargoe i dont think hes particularly apt to turn made hands into bluffs (or semibluff c/r weakish draws on turn). I think we miss some value with a turn check in this spot vs his range. though its close for sure. i guess just because "oh [censored] he checkraised" the answer to this hand shouldn't neccesarily be "duh, dont bet turn".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see you getting 3 streets of value here, so I'd rather just call/bet river.

wdrzich · #8 09-15-2007, 04:39 PM

check the turn

now that you bet it, fold

if you wanna peel to the two outer, go for it, but fold river

sauce123 · #9 09-15-2007, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to those saying turn check, from playing with redargoe i dont think hes particularly apt to turn made hands into bluffs (or semibluff c/r weakish draws on turn). I think we miss some value with a turn check in this spot vs his range. though its close for sure. i guess just because "oh [censored] he checkraised" the answer to this hand shouldn't neccesarily be "duh, dont bet turn".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see you getting 3 streets of value here, so I'd rather just call/bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]

hoopster- i think thats kind of a simplistic explanation though. if ive been DB turns, and i start checking behind TPGK in spots like this, im becoming pretty damn exploitable to an opponent who ive played 14k hands with. balance is an issue. to be more specific- i think betting this turn with air is +ev against this player.

Redgrape · #10 09-15-2007, 05:37 PM

I think the river is a complete blank for your range obviously which is something that needs to be pointed out.

I think what is also important is there's really very little in red's range that you could put him on that hit the turn, which makes me think he's just [censored] with you and has the nuts.