5/5 PLO: noob bluffing in 600BB pot

Jamougha · #1 08-01-2007, 09:41 PM

Villain is pretty aggro and has been kind of tilting from loosing 5 buyins, mostly HU. When not tilting I suspect he's pretty decent. Still I don't know how to play this game so I can't really tell.

Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$5
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Button: $1496
Hero: $3162
BB: $396.70

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Button raises to $20, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($60, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($60, 3 players)
Hero bets $45, BB calls, Button raises to $150, Hero raises to $555, BB folds, Button calls.

Here I figure he always bets a set on the flop and he can't really raise with Q5xx so he must also have spades with some additional outs. Like 87ss.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1215, 2 players)
Hero bets $1215,

Figure he never has KJxx after flop action so I rep straight wrap w/ spades or a thin v-bet from a set bc I hate cc and figure he will fold stuff like AT w/ spades? 921 for him to call.

Good or bad?

sc000t · #2 08-01-2007, 09:57 PM

I like it.

Requin · #3 08-01-2007, 10:22 PM

Once you get there I think river is good but I don't much like the turn 3bet. Not that I really know what I'm talking about but hey.

Ribbo · #4 08-01-2007, 10:23 PM

The correct reply actually comes from knowing the game, your image, your opponents image etcetc. With that in mind, it is not possible for anyone who was not in the game to give you good advice.
Your correct play as always "depends".

Jamougha · #5 08-01-2007, 10:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The correct reply actually comes from knowing the game, your image, your opponents image etcetc. With that in mind, it is not possible for anyone who was not in the game to give you good advice.
Your correct play as always "depends".

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh dear. Better shut down the forums then?

Ribbo · #6 08-01-2007, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The correct reply actually comes from knowing the game, your image, your opponents image etcetc. With that in mind, it is not possible for anyone who was not in the game to give you good advice.
Your correct play as always "depends".

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh dear. Better shut down the forums then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's simplify it shall we? What you're asking is "will this bluff work on my opponent?". Since we do not know your opponent, we cannot answer the question.

ZeTurd · #7 08-01-2007, 10:59 PM

I think it's a good call to remove KJxx from his hand range. An aggressive opponent, and slightly tilted to boot, typically always leads out that hand when checked to.

But as Ribbo points out, there's something missing from your description. You say that you think he's on tilt. Does that mean he might be willing to call down light? You say you suspect him of being a decent player; does that mean he might be able to figure out what you're up to here? That said, I often make the same kind of move myself when a river hits that makes me able to represent a nut hand that it's unlikely my opponent will be able to call down.

Exitonly · #8 08-01-2007, 11:12 PM

heh yea, shouldnt the logic vs a tilted opponent be like, "He NEVER has KJ here, SICK VALUE BET TIME!" edit: not with this hand.. obv, though that certainly would be sick.

Jamougha · #9 08-02-2007, 01:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The correct reply actually comes from knowing the game, your image, your opponents image etcetc. With that in mind, it is not possible for anyone who was not in the game to give you good advice.
Your correct play as always "depends".

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh dear. Better shut down the forums then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's simplify it shall we? What you're asking is "will this bluff work on my opponent?". Since we do not know your opponent, we cannot answer the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not even particularly close to what I'm asking.

Buzz · #10 08-02-2007, 02:45 AM

Jamougha - I hate to get into the middle of what might be a long standing battle between you and Ribs. But maybe I can shed a tiny bit of light.

[ QUOTE ]
Here I figure he always bets a set on the flop and he can't really raise with Q5xx so he must also have spades with some additional outs. Like 87ss.

[/ QUOTE ]Mainly I'm posting just to point out that if Villain does have spades, it's likely that he has better spades than you. For example with exactly two spades, then it's 21/36 to 15/36 that his spades are better than yours. With three spades, then it's 64/84 to 20/84 that his spades are better than yours.

I don't know how that information would affect your strategy or even whether or not you already knew that.

I should probably quit here.
---
But I have opponents, good, mediocre, and poor, who would trap with a flopped set from the button in this situation. In other words, it doesn't seem unusual to me that someone might slow play top set after this flop, in order to induce a bluff on the next betting round. I wouldn't be as sure as you seem to be that an opponent who checked this flop from the button wasn't setting a trap. But I might bite anyhow, just as it seems you did.

Does he fold to your pressure on the turn with or without the nut spade draw? Not knowing your opponent, I don't have a clue. (I think it really depends on your opponent).
---
I would think a good fit with this flop would be some arrangements of four cards in the range king-queen-jack-ten-nine.

I can see that you don't have that, or even three cards in the stated range. Does your opponent? Not knowing your opponent, I don't have a clue.
---
Did you play it good or bad? I don't know. On the turn, it seems like you're betting without much in the way of a good hand. Looks pretty much like a bluff or a weak semi-bluff to me. Will that work against this opponent or not? Not knowing your opponent, I don't have a clue.

At any rate, whether it worked or not, it seems like bold play. Thanks for sharing.

Buzz