my solution to the gay marriage argument

[kurto]

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To be honest... I'm not sure what you're saying here.

You offered your opinion that gay parents are more likely to raise a gay child. There's no evidence to support this.

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He didnt say that, I did.

And if you don't think that these "scientists" are skewing their results in order to maintain their funding, you're just living in a dream world.

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I see... so we're to believe the scientists rigged their tests simply because YOUR opinion is different then their findings? Even though YOUR opinion goes contrary to observable evidence? Nearly all gays are raised by heterosexual parents so your premise is flawed off the top.

I'm willing to bet you have no evidence to support your opinion. Yet you assume any tests which don't reinforce your bias are skewed?

Clearly your mind is set and there's no point discussing since your opinion clearly trumps any real world evidence. No... you don't wear your biases on your sleeve.

[Inso0]

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But again... the tax breaks is not really the driving motivator of gay marriage.

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I absolutely agree with you. But the entire point of OP's post is to say that it's unfair that gay couples can't get the same tax breaks as hetero couples.

Which is it? Are you arguing for the recognition of gay couples as "married" (to which I would say, how shallow are you that you'd give a [censored] what other people think?) or do you just want domestic partners to enjoy the small tax benefits?

[maxtower]

Whatever happened to the marriage penalty?

[Inso0]

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He didnt say that, I did.

And if you don't think that these "scientists" are skewing their results in order to maintain their funding, you're just living in a dream world.

That's like saying that it's absurd that politicians play to the special interest groups. They'd never pander to the people who keep them in a cushy job, would they? No, never!

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I see... so we're to believe the scientists rigged their tests simply because YOUR opinion is different then their findings? Even though YOUR opinion goes contrary to observable evidence? Nearly all gays are raised by heterosexual parents so your premise is flawed off the top.

I'm willing to bet you have no evidence to support your opinion. Yet you assume any tests which don't reinforce your bias are skewed?

Clearly your mind is set and there's no point discussing since your opinion clearly trumps any real world evidence. No... you don't wear your biases on your sleeve.

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Interesting cropping on your part.

You forgot the part of my post that puts that statement in context. I can only assume it was an oversight, so I put it back in.

And real world evidence tells me that people are a product of their environment in nearly all cases.

Exceptions exist as with any generalization.

[kurto]

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But again... the tax breaks is not really the driving motivator of gay marriage.

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I absolutely agree with you. But the entire point of OP's post is to say that it's unfair that gay couples can't get the same tax breaks as hetero couples.

Which is it? Are you arguing for the recognition of gay couples as "married" (to which I would say, how shallow are you that you'd give a [censored] what other people think?) or do you just want domestic partners to enjoy the small tax benefits?

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I'm not rereading the entire thread so I can't say whose point I'm agreeing with since these threads have so many tangents.

Here's what I'm saying-
I believe gays should have the right to marry the same as I do.
It was my impression that someone was arguing against gay marriage because they didn't think gays deserved the same taxbreaks.
I think taxbreaks are just one of many benefits (and responsibilities) that come with being married. I think its false to think that the taxbreaks is the primary reason that gays want to marry (it is just one of many benefits) NOR do I think its the primary objection of most people who oppose it.

That being said, I do think married gay couples should get the same benefits as straight couples. If I get a tax break merely for making a lifelong commitment to my spouse, then so should a gay couple.

Regarding children- if I don't have any children, I get less of a tax deduction then someone with more dependents. This would apply equally to married gays.

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Are you arguing for the recognition of gay couples as "married" (to which I would say, how shallow are you that you'd give a [censored] what other people think?)

[/ QUOTE ] Let me get this straight... gay couples are asking for the right to be married the same as I... and if I agree with treating them equally, you think I'm shallow? That is the oddest backwards insult I've ever heard. Congrats on that one.

And on occasion I do give a *%*$*% what other people think and feel . Its called empathy.

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or do you just want domestic partners to enjoy the small tax benefits?

[/ QUOTE ] Once again, tax benefits are just one of many benefits are responsibilities of marriage. I just pulled this off a website from some lawyers office:
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Tax Benefits
Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
Estate Planning Benefits
Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse’s behalf.
Government Benefits
Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
Receiving public assistance benefits.
Employment Benefits
Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse’s close relatives dies.
Medical Benefits
Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
Death Benefits
Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
Making burial or other final arrangements.
Family Benefits
Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
Applying for joint foster care rights.
Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
Housing Benefits
Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
Consumer Benefits
Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families
Other Legal Benefits and Protections
Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can’t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

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It seems to me if heterosexual couples gain all these benefits simply by marrying, why shouldn't gays get the same rights? THAT would be shallow.

[kurto]

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Interesting cropping on your part.

You forgot the part of my post that puts that statement in context. I can only assume it was an oversight, so I put it back in.


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Your analogy is completely irrelevent. It has no bearing and pasting it in changed nothing.

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And real world evidence tells me that people are a product of their environment in nearly all cases.


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(1) your real world evidence doesn't explain how homosexuals are nearly always a product of heterosexual families.
(2) Your real world experience offers no practical evidence for the sexual tendencies of children raised by gay families
(3) when studies of just such a thing are done... you decide that THEY must be biased (not you... cause your opinion on something you've CLEARLY studied trumps any actual statistical analysis.) and disregard anything that disagrees with your opinion

You are an interesting case because you don't even attempt to argue from any evidence other then your own opinion.

[NeBlis]

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You are an interesting case because you don't even attempt to argue from any evidence other then your own opinion.

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I think we have all seen that stupid parents tend to create stupid children.

[mbillie1]

fwiw, you guys are just proving that american politics are doomed.

[Case Closed]

I skimmed this thread and found it to be very absurd talking about only tax breaks as it relates to marriage. I am sorry if this has already been mentioned, but if I adopt a child to raise with another male life partner I have to try and adopt that child as a single parent. Even though I plan on living with said life partner till the day I die, I am at a disadvantage at getting a child. Even when I get this child, if I die the child will be placed in the custody of the government, not my life partner who has been raising the child just as long as I have. It's absolutely absurd that homosexual couples can not be recognized as married by the government. There are thousands of ways that gay couples of discriminated against by the government, a lot of them outside of tax breaks, because they can not be legally recognized as a married couple.

[Inso0]

With the obvious example of the tax filing, most of those things can be accomplished without being married through a simple PoA and living will.

We're just going in circles now.

We should be focusing our efforts on trimming the government down to size instead of pointless squabbling over who should keep more of their tax money. How about EVERYONE keep most of their tax money, and we shave 85% off the size of our government.