$55 NLTRN: First hand 3bet pot w AQs

emKay · #1 11-12-2007, 09:15 PM

This was the very first hand of the match. According to SS he is a fairly big loser, thats all I know about him.
The turn check is kind of a slowplay obviously. A free card is very unlikely to hurt me, he might bluff with random chunk on the river and he may be more inclined to call with PPs. On the river, I'm very likely ahead plus I think a lot of donks are bad enought to make a curious call with their KK or whatever.
Here's the hand:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t1500)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t60, BB raises to t180, Hero calls t120.

Flop: (t360) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t180, Hero calls t180.

Turn: (t720) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t720) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t360, Hero raises to t1140

Bonus question: How much do you widen his 3betting range given this is the first hand? That much to actually 4bet here preflop?

hra146 · #2 11-12-2007, 09:45 PM

I dont mind checking behind on that turn, but are you really hoping to get called by worse on the river?

I hate the rrAI. edit: its not AI I just realized, but it wouldnt make much of a difference I guess.

prodonkey · #3 11-12-2007, 11:43 PM

that river raise is gross.. I just call there

Somekid · #4 11-12-2007, 11:52 PM

Is shoving preflop in this spot any good?

ChicagoRy · #5 11-13-2007, 12:04 AM

I've only played like 100-150 lifetime games at the 55s.

In the 33s on PS I would certainly 4-bet PF or raise flop.

I would certainly not take this passive of a line unless I had a read that my opponent slowplayed and underbet hands. Otherwise you're losing a ton of value here.

Also, shoving the river is not a good idea. If you think it's +EV to raise the river it's almost certainly more EV to raise or shove the flop.

theordinaryboy · #6 11-13-2007, 09:54 AM

I like this line up to the river, where i would just call.

I think just calling the 3 bet is probably best as we have no reads so far on villain. The only other possibility i would do is shove, i would do this more often if villain's sharkscope stats were very bad (-20%ROI or worse), i would rather shove that say 4 bet to 540 where we are left with a pot sized bet and are put in an awkward position if he calls pre then shoves on the flop when we miss.

With regards to post-flop play this is how i see your thinking,

Flop: Villain just continuation bets me here, i'm probably ahead but if i raise and he doesnt have an ace or better he's folding, if i call and he is bluffing i might get him to bluff again on the turn.

Turn: Ok he's checked so he almost certainly does not have an Ace. It is possible for him to have a mid-big pocket pair but then again as this is the first hand he could have a wide range of hands, anyway i feel i am way ahead of him i will check the turn to induce a river bluff and also if he does have me beat i should not lose my stack on this hand if i check the turn.

River: OK so he's bet half pot, he's probably fallen for my trap of weakness on the turn, but he could have hit a donk straight or 2 pair so i CALL. I really cannot see a hand that i beat calling a push. We can potentially get value from AJ-A9 or if he's really bad KK, but considering he did not bet the turn i find it very unlikely that he has AJ-A9. So i believe a call on the river to be by far the correct play.

I think some people would just bet the turn rather than risk a free card, but it is the choice of letting villain draw to maybe a 5 outer compared with getting him to bluff 360 chips at you on the river.

How's my thinking?

jayluf · #7 11-13-2007, 10:35 AM

flat river please. will show up with AJ/55/2pr/random pp here. only called when behind that range

emKay · #8 11-13-2007, 12:48 PM

I understand the point about the river shove, but I assigned him an other 3betting range than you guys seem to do. I put him on mid-high pocket pairs, aces and a few random broadways plus an unlikely suited connector that may have some outs against me. All other hands from that range have 3 outs or less. The only hands Im behind to are AK and AA and he normally plays them different. So given the fact I'm very likely ahead plus he may call with a lot of worse stuff, I figured shoving is good here. I also assume he is aware that Im not very likely to hold a 5, so he shouldn't be very afraid of that 4 straight on board.
However, when he has a wider than the above 3betting range, what very well may be true, I agree that the shove is no good.