Made Flush - Limp Reraise - Can I fold?

[Poker Jon]

Hi All,

Villain in this hand seems to be a TAG and isn't throwing his chips round a fair amount. He is playing ABC poker. History, is that I made a huge riuver bluff on him (not shown) about 30 hands or so ago, and he definately laid down a bid hand, so I think I can give him some form of respect.

In this example, I didn't know whether I was up against a bigger made flush, with Villain holding AcXc, or whether it was the bare Ace of clubs?? Can I find a fold here.

Also how much does the SB flat call alter our play??

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG+1 (t8225)
MP1 (t3285)
MP2 (t22290)
MP3 (t16003)
CO (t40730)
Hero (t36743)
SB (t22555)
BB (t14140)
UTG (t20220)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t1800</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls t1800, SB calls t1500, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t5500) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t5500) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t600</font>, UTG calls t600, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t4200</font>, SB calls t3600, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t18370</font>, Hero??????

Cheers,

Jon

[hamnegger]

call

[veggies]

Fold preflop.

But since you are in it you have to call. What were you looking for when you called his preflop raise? If you just made him lay down a big hand not long ago, he is far less likely to lay another big one down against you. Not really the spot you should be trying to take another away from him after the flop.

But now you hit your hand almost as best you could and you are thinking about folding?

Crying call.

[Cornell Fiji]

Preflop is really bad

You hit the best possible flop and checked which is really bad

You hit the best possible turn and are wondering if you should get the money in... thats really bad.

[black666]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is really bad

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind it that much because hero is deep and on the button. It's very easy to get rid of the hand on the flop or stack villain if you hit. Take a PF call with AJ for example. If an Ace flops and UTG has AQ/AK, it can get very expensive.
I don't advocate calling here everytime with such hands, but I do mix those in.

[ QUOTE ]
You hit the best possible flop and checked which is really bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate that? Why not take the free card?

[ QUOTE ]
You hit the best possible turn and are wondering if you should get the money in... thats really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT
You've hit and you should be instacalling. The fact that you have 2 clubs in your hand makes it even more unlikely that one of the 2 villains has a flush. I guess UTG has the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[illini43]

Echoing what others have said:

- Fold preflop.

- I bet the flop because:
1) A bet might take down a nice sized pot on the flop
2) If your bet is called/raised, you have a lot of good cards on the turn that could help or 3bet pushing the flop with ~ 12-13 outs to hit your hand is never really a bad thing.

[Acein8ter]

Fold Pre...

[Stumpy]

I think we can assume if you shove SB is calling as well.

I don't think either one of them can have less than A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or a set.
Here's my UTG Range that would still be in this hand: KK+, 99, AcQo+, AcJc+
Here's my SB Range: AcTo+, AcXc, QcTc+, JTc,87c,76c, 44, 99

If you stove those, you're 33.6% to win.
You're calling 17k to win 50k: 50*(.336) - 17*(.664) = +5.5k

You'd have to throw a lot of weird suited hands in for SB to make pushing bad.
You're 67% against the UTG range, so you don't care if SB folds.

I can hardly come up with any hands where either SB or UTG's actions make sense.

The only UTG hand I can sort of explain is KK, where he checks the A flop because he's scared, then hits a set and overplays it.
AcKx also seems reasonable(ish), but hard to understand him checking the flop.

SB's min bet on the turn is often a lame attempt to buy a card (with a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) for 600 chips.
A smaller group of even lamer people would do this with the nuts.
So I think that weakens SB's holdings, who is your real problem in this hand.

[gobboboy]

I used to call preflop but I don't anymore. If you're calling preflop and thinking about folding here then there's something wrong... Snapcall the shove.

[jonnyd]

dont call this preflop if youre going to fold after you make the flush