Update-Florida Indian Compact-Final Draft & How Poker is affected

[iBETuLOST]

Well here is the BAD NEWS reguarding Poker & the Indian Compact.

The final draft of the compact contains the following under Paragraph L.

"L. The Tribe shall conduct Poker in compliance with all provisions of Florida law,including restrictions on ante and pot amounts.
However each facility may hold up to 4 tournaments per year that are not subject to the restrictions/limitations imposed by Florida law, provided that the net win from each tournament is donated to a charitable orginazation,organized persuant to 501(c)(3).

The new deadline for the Compact to be signed is Sept. 30th and contains a Paragraph stating it will be put to a vote by the Legislature to ratify it.If the Legislative Branch votes it down or attempts to change it the Indians can void it or have the option to agree to any changes in writting.

The Compact still allows Class III Slots and "Card Games" as defined in the original Draft of the Compact and prohibits Craps and Roulette ect.

So the Indian casinos will have to run the card rooms under the same restrictions currently in place at the Parimutuals!
Unless or untill the limits are raised at the Parimutals,
(I have heard rumors of the Max buy in being raised to $300).

If the Compact is voted down and voided,the Department of the Interior will almost certainly Rule the Indians have the right to operate Class III slots and the state will recieve $0.

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[cmitch]

Please provide a link. I am refusing to believe it until I see a link. Please don't be true.

[naplesplayer]

I believe. Rumor 300 dollar by in no limit

[wonderboy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Well here is the BAD NEWS reguarding Poker & the Indian Compact.

The final draft of the compact contains the following under Paragraph L.

"L. The Tribe shall conduct Poker in compliance with all provisions of Florida law,including restrictions on ante and pot amounts.
However each facility may hold up to 4 tournaments per year that are not subject to the restrictions/limitations imposed by Florida law, provided that the net win from each tournament is donated to a charitable orginazation,organized persuant to 501(c)(3).

The new deadline for the Compact to be signed is Sept. 30th and contains a Paragraph stating it will be put to a vote by the Legislature to ratify it.If the Legislative Branch votes it down or attempts to change it the Indians can void it or have the option to agree to any changes in writting.

The Compact still allows Class III Slots and "Card Games" as defined in the original Draft of the Compact and prohibits Craps and Roulette ect.

So the Indian casinos will have to run the card rooms under the same restrictions currently in place at the Parimutuals!
Unless or untill the limits are raised at the Parimutals,
(I have heard rumors of the Max buy in being raised to $300).

If the Compact is voted down and voided,the Department of the Interior will almost certainly Rule the Indians have the right to operate Class III slots and the state will recieve $0.


[/ QUOTE ]


First off the article also said the following:

The governor believes he has the right to ''act for the state'' in executing the agreement to give Las Vegas-style slot machines and blackjack-style table games to the tribe, while legislators from both parties argue they have an obligation to approve or reject the deal.

A draft of the compact released by the governor last week shows that if lawakwers don't ratify the compact, the governor may go ahead with the expanded games without their approval. The unilateral strengthening of the governor's hand has annoyed lawmakers, even those who normally support Crist. If the feud continues, the governor has hinted he's prepared to see them in court.

''A lot of people have the right to make their cases,'' Crist said. ``It's the judges that ultimately decide, and I'll leave it to the judicial branch.''

Here is the link for this article http://www.miamiherald.com/458/story/249305.html

I would also like to point out that class 3 gaming allows blackjack and bacarat which are house games why in the world would there be any limits inposed on class 2 gaming of which poker is regulated under. The only revenue that the casino has is the rake and that is capped at $5.00 by the state. I believe that the only reason there were restrictions in the first place (ie $100 max buy in) was because casinos were not equiped to handle the logistics of a higher buy in and not worth the agravation for only a $5 rake per hand.

[wonderboy1]

ALSO THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL REGARDING THE COMPACT WITH THE SEMINOLES CAN BE READ AT: http://www.miamiherald.com/458/story/249305.html

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]
I would also like to point out that class 3 gaming allows blackjack and bacarat which are house games why in the world would there be any limits inposed on class 2 gaming of which poker is regulated under. The only revenue that the casino has is the rake and that is capped at $5.00 by the state. I believe that the only reason there were restrictions in the first place (ie $100 max buy in) was because casinos were not equiped to handle the logistics of a higher buy in and not worth the agravation for only a $5 rake per hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason they have restrictions on the buy-in is because under Federal Law, as overseen by the National Indian Gaming Commision, they are only entitled to the same games and stakes as allowed by the State which their sovereign land is located in. The Indians are inherently allowed fair competition with any surrounding casinos, and are automatically entitled to the same games and stakes as allowed by State law. If you really want to get technical, they're also supposed to keep the same hours which means their 24-hour poker room is in violation of this law as well.

They could get access to these games (which will absolutely 100% be revised to include the newly approved Vegas style slots) from the Dept. of the Interior without having to give any revenue cut to the state. That has been their bargaining chip and is the reason that other games are even being considered. The Seminoles know that they'll get slots anyway and not have to give the State a dime so... why not hold out and demand OTHER games in addition before giving the State any consideration.

The main reason I can see for keeping poker stakes the same as their surrounding competitors is because Legislators cannot willfully sign the pink slips of every 'Racino' employee in Florida. If the Seminoles get exclusive high stakes poker, a number of Florida based businesses and employers will tank which means lost jobs and income for hundreds, possibly thousands, of Florida families. By offering them only other card games, this isn't creating as much of a conflict within the poker market. I guarantee you the Racino industry is lobbying heavily against a deal that includes poker right now. If the deal were to include poker, any room not more than 50 miles from a Seminole casino would be out of business within a year.

If you ask me, this is the real problem with raising poker stakes and giving the Seminoles free reign on the poker business in Florida.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
If the deal were to include poker, any room not more than 50 miles from a Seminole casino would be out of business within a year.


[/ QUOTE ]

Have to disagree with this statement. I have spoken to many of the players at the Isle and most said that even if the Hard Rock allowed $500 limits they would not leave. There are several reasons.

First, the Isle is nicer period. Also no smoking.

Second, the Hard Rock's rake is a time charge which most players hate.

Third, they only have a limited amount of room for any more tables so it will be a zoo with long waits - who wants that?

Fourth, most good players have adapted to the $100 limit and are still making a killing. My friend is playing 6 days a week and averaging $2000-$3000 a week. I usually make $100-$300 when I play.

[soulvamp]

Didn't I read somewhere on this forum that the Hard Rock abandoned the time charge?

I do agree with everything you said, Boca. Just trying to set the record straight if it does indeed need to be.

[iBETuLOST]

Here is the link to the Draft of the Compact with Parapraph. L.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/naked...es/compact.tif

If the Poker rules had changed, it might have given the Parimutals(exspecially those within 50 miles)some ammo to have their lawyers and Lobbyists argue for allowing the same changes in the Parimutal Poker Rooms.

The argument made here of "what the Indians can or can't do reguarding POKER" will be mute if the COMPACT is signed and ratified, because the COMPACT clearly states that the Indain Casinos will be agreeing to operate under the restrictions and limitations as currently allowed under the Poker Room Legislation.(So even if they had the right under the Indian Gaming Act to operate differently then the Parimutals, they will be waiving that right, other then the 4 tournys a year clause, in order to get the other casino card games the Compact will allow them!

Now it might be better for Florida Poker if the Compact falls apart.

It appears that the Rubio led Republican opposition is intent on voting it down and challenging Crist's authourity to enter into it without Legislative approval.
And it appears the Governor's plan is to sign it, let the legislative branch have their vote and if they vote no, to let the Court decide wheather the Compact is valid even without the Legislature Ratifying it!

(CybrPunk's take on the Indian Gaming Act is accurate even though Table games fall under Class III in the act,the act allows the Indians the right to operate those Class III games allowed elsewhere in the state. And the argument that when Broward voted in class III slots it gave the Indians the right to run all Class III games whould almost certainly fail in court)and that is why the Indians are willing to give so much to the state, if they are allowed the additional "Card Games".

[soulvamp]

My question would be this: Why would the parimutuels necessarily want the stakes raised in poker from where they are now? I see that as a non-issue. The Seminoles would want it as a competitive advantage, but it would be no advantage to any operator if everyone gets it. There's certainly no more revenue to be made from rake.