This is standard right?

[EC10]

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ewwwwwwwwwwwww

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bump this response. what don't you like about it?

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i mean, that was just my first glance initial reaction. i actually meant moreso not shoving the flop is gross, rather than the turn push. why did you flat call? did you think he'd keep bluffing or value shove his ace on the turn?

but reading through this thread i really don't like the responses you're getting about the turn shove. i mean it only achieves one thing: bluffing him off a 5. you've gotta be [censored] nuts to think you're getting called by worse. i don't really have any clue how often he has the ace here, but if you DO have the best hand he has <4 outs (2 of which you are obv never paying off).

[Clayton]

bc a flop flatcall looks more like FU cracka i am stubborn and putting you on a move

[DenGreek]

I like it, most of the times he has a 5x hand, sometimes he finds A5/Ax...but flop minraise--don't know what to make of it..I hate that freakin crap

[piriformis]

i dont think villian will ever give us credit for an ace here. do u all raise flop leads with a big ace?

flop leads = nuts or nothing. if villian is smart he will put u on nothing nd call anyway.

i check turn content with a split, and let him try and bluff.

[berserk]

What 5 does a 17/10 call with out of the sb? I highly doubt that he is calling 56 there. I think dismissing the possibility that he has an ace is bad, and I think he shows up with AK here a lot.

[MDMA]

First of all:

Can you ever get value here? No. Can you make him bluff? Very, very unlikely, I'd say it's about a 0.00001% chance basically.

Well, actually, the funniest thing ever would be if he led like K-hi into you and now calls hoping you floated him and is now firing complete air expecting you to check both ace and 5 100% of the time, but chances of that happening is probably the same as him bluffing river, so thats why the whole discussion about getting value from bluffs or worse hands is not an issue here at all.

So, basically the whole fkin mantra that always goes on 2p2 about "how the [censored] are you going to get called by worse?" as a reason is just of no consequence here.

Can you get him off a split? Yes, but I'm not sure you have a better chance doing that by firing turn than by firing river, I think both has merits.

Basically, checking behind means you are less likely to have been floating flop and thus it's way more likely you have a real hand - i.e you have either a 5 or an ace, and never air, and thus it's "tougher" to call for him in that sense. If you would ever float the flop re-minraise, the street you would fire is turn (basically since you realize he never has an ace, and if he's smart, he will realize you realize this as well), so basically firing turn might get called more simply because now air is at least a part, albeit a small one, of your range, whereas if you check behind, it is not and you are now solely placed at ace or five.

On the other hand, as duck alluded to, the whole "if you fire turn he can't believe you can ever have a 5"-idea is also viable, and, I must say, on balance, I do feel that it slightly tips in favor of pushing turn since they will get confused by your bet, and while in general confused average players call, I feel this is a spot where they probably would turn to folding in disgust instead.

Basically, if you fire turn he thinks he has a chance to WIN and might call because of that, whereas if you check behind he knows he can ONLY get a split at best.

God damn, this is close. Problem is that bad/average players goes to themselves at all times first and foremost, and they ALWAYS check the ace behind here on turn, and thus might not believe you because of that.

I guess in the end it comes to what is most likely, you floating and bluffing, or him thinking you never have a 5 here when you fire turn, and in the end, I guess the latter is way more likely for most people to assume I'd say, i.e I feel most players wouldn't dream of you bluffing here, but they could definitely grasp the idea that you shouldn't ever have a 5 here, and that would tip it over to a turnpush in the end I'd say.

[ahnuld]

I dont see why ppl are totally ignoring the fact that villan could have an ace here. Im almost positive if he does hold an ace, he would bet the river if we checked behind here. So if he checks, ez push and you are basically freerolling on the split fold equity.

[Terrabon98]

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I dont see why ppl are totally ignoring the fact that villan could have an ace here. Im almost positive if he does hold an ace, he would bet the river if we checked behind here. So if he checks, ez push and you are basically freerolling on the split fold equity.

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why can't villian push river with a 5 that he may have folded on the turn?

[Bet The Flop]

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I dont see why ppl are totally ignoring the fact that villan could have an ace here. Im almost positive if he does hold an ace, he would bet the river if we checked behind here. So if he checks, ez push and you are basically freerolling on the split fold equity.

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why can't villian push river with a 5 that he may have folded on the turn?

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bc no one does that.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

i don't want to post because unnamed villain might be a twoplustwoer

<font color="white">i'm drunk. he folded, i showed, he said "same hand" i patted myself on the back </font>