6max Limit + very loose/passive opponents = big problem

[Norb]

I'm playing now since a while 6max Limit and my average win rate is between 1.5 and 2BB/100, what I don't consider satisfying. My biggest problem at the moment is a special kind of very loose passive and unpredictable opponent that should be very profitable according to the litearture but I really can't beat them. No way!

I'd like to talk about one special person. He is really the prototype of those opponents. Let me call him Mr. X.

Mr. X is a regular in my favourite online 6max Limit Hold'em game. I have already played a few numbers of games against him and I have collected all those played hands in my Pokertracker database. He plays very, very loose and position seems to be a foreign word to him. Although he seems obviously preferring high and suited cards, he plays nearly anything from any position. He raises only seldom preflop and only very strong starting hands. But this is not predictable. But the biggest problem for me is his postflop play. If he hits something or not, he always checks and calls, even with monster hands. Sometimes he bet out but even in this case it is very unpredictable to imagine what he might hold. Sometimes he bets out with 2. pair and sometimes he c/c a flopped set. I can not dig into his mind but it seems that his major directive is to obfuscate his play. Only one thing is very predictable, he never (!) folds a hand! Really never, I have analysed all his played hands.

I consider my postflop playing skills to be quite well but it is impossible to gain any information from Mr. X by betting and raising. Therefore my only advantage is my preflop hand selection but this will be compensated because Mr. X will always gain if I fold my hand if I don't hit the flop well enough and my hand doesn't have any chance of improving. And it is really astonishing, how often Mr. X hits some kind of miracle monster hand with his kind of play!

It sounds crazy but I have no advantage against players like Mr. X! If there are multiple opponents like Mr. X are against me it's even getting worse. Their combined outs are really unbeatable in a family pot!

How can I play successfully against Mr. X and his fellows in a 6max limit game? If I play full ring Limit or 6max No Limit Hold'em, those opponents are really no problem because my strong hands will be payed off but 6max Limit is a really horrible game if you are against such an enemy. Should I just simply avoid Mr. X and his companions?

If somebody could give me some usefull hints, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help!

Best regards, Norbert

[midnightpulp]

[ QUOTE ]
I consider my postflop playing skills to be quite well but it is impossible to gain any information from Mr. X by betting and raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry as much about gaining information as extracting the maximum from LAPs.

These players are just about impossible to read. Like you said, they play a draw, bottom pair, middle pair, top pair the exact same way: call, call, call.

However, these are traditionally the easiest opponents to crush. Sounds like you're experiencing a bit of variance where they seem to always "have it."

I can assure you, this will change, and you'll be smiling as they call your turn raise and river bet with bottom pair.

Do not avoid these opponents, seek them out and engrave their screen name into your buddy list.

Also, try to determine the breed of LAP you're against. Is he the type to only bet top pair on the end when you check to him? If so, you can safely fold your weaker hands. Is he capable of the occasional bluff? Of value betting weaker holdings such as middle pair or top pair no kicker?
What type of hands he does raise? Etc, etc...

When you managed to figure out his habits, make the proper adjustments.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
If somebody could give me some usefull hints, I would really appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet when you have something check when you don't. It's that simple.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If somebody could give me some usefull hints, I would really appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet when you have something check when you don't. It's that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]



exactly.

step 1: flop good hand

2: bet

3: they call with aforementioned trash

4. $$$

[Zeatrix]

Well I have the same problem. A typical hand: I raise Co with A9s SB and BB calls. Flop:
K83 rainbow. Check to me, I bet. (checking behind seems too weak?)

One player calls.

Turn: 6

Check to me I check.

River: Q

Check check

he shows QJo

I see that ALL the time and still I know it should be good for me but I just cant figure out when to bet the turn and when to check.

I used to be a winning 15/30 player, took a 6 month break, and am now a losing 2/4 player. What gives?

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]

I used to be a winning 15/30 player, took a 6 month break, and am now a losing 2/4 player. What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

gone are the party days

you have to table select.

you have to adjust to how things are now


in your hand, I'd usually bet/fold the turn, check the river.

Or with a read, I'm checking the turn, and folding the river, because goodplayers don't call there with nothing.

And FWIW, everyone has this problem

[yellowjack]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I have the same problem. A typical hand: I raise Co with A9s SB and BB calls. Flop:
K83 rainbow. Check to me, I bet. (checking behind seems too weak?)

One player calls.

Turn: 6

Check to me I check.

River: Q

Check check

he shows QJo

I see that ALL the time and still I know it should be good for me but I just cant figure out when to bet the turn and when to check.

I used to be a winning 15/30 player, took a 6 month break, and am now a losing 2/4 player. What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

Games were easier before, now they are tougher.

You should figure out when to fire again. In your example, you played it perfectly because given the flop, there isn't a lot he can have -- either a pair or nothing. It's unlucky that he showed QJo for a rivered pair, but now you know that you have to 2-barrel him on basically all flops. Think of it as a bigger investment.

[yellowjack]

Sit on Mr. X's immediate left, or as close as possible. If you are sitting on the seat to his right or second to his right, leave the game and come back if it's that much of a problem.

[Mozart]

OP i can understand you, last week a guy with 97 V$IP crushed me over 500 Hands and there is nothing you can do. Just hit the damn Flop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[rafiki]

man sit in his left and punish him. If they are going to check made hands (pair, 2 pair etc...), you are going to get tons of free draws. Avoid marginal value bets, and bet your hands sir.