JJ Push Checkup

[Backstabr]

1/2 live at a local club. Dealt black JJ in the HJ, I open for $6 with $90 behind. (In this spot, I generally make it $6-10.) Button and both blinds call. All cover, and seem to play reasonably postflop.

Flop ($24): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets $10, BB calls, I think and push.

[j831526]

Push is ok ONLY if you have no faith in your post flop skills. You're over betting the pot by almost 3x. Someone slow playing AA or KK has you dominated. 7c5c is also a big favorite over you. Seem like you're betting too much to win this. I understand the desire to blow all draws and overcards away. How about $40? You're only called or raised by one of the hands above (QQ shouldn't be eager to call) OR by someone with huge stones.

[tkkjsoup]

[ QUOTE ]
Push is ok ONLY if you have no faith in your post flop skills. You're over betting the pot by almost 3x. Someone slow playing AA or KK has you dominated. 7c5c is also a big favorite over you. Seem like you're betting too much to win this. I understand the desire to blow all draws and overcards away. How about $40? You're only called or raised by one of the hands above (QQ shouldn't be eager to call) OR by someone with huge stones.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, if we bet $40 and one or both call, then what is the plan when any of the 17 to 23 scare cards hit on the turn and villain(s) bet?

I push this flop with 2 villains in the hand, the pot at $44, and only $84 behind.

[j831526]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push is ok ONLY if you have no faith in your post flop skills. You're over betting the pot by almost 3x. Someone slow playing AA or KK has you dominated. 7c5c is also a big favorite over you. Seem like you're betting too much to win this. I understand the desire to blow all draws and overcards away. How about $40? You're only called or raised by one of the hands above (QQ shouldn't be eager to call) OR by someone with huge stones.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, if we bet $40 and one or both call, then what is the plan when any of the 17 to 23 scare cards hit on the turn and villain(s) bet?

I push this flop with 2 villains in the hand, the pot at $44, and only $84 behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

What 17 to 23 scare cards? If you bet $40 on the flop, you can assume ONLY a hand that has you beat has called with the possible exception of 7c5c. You can check-fold unless a J hits the turn. Yes - you're paying off to bad draws that get there, but you want these players making these bad calls. Some days they take your stack. That's poker.

[John49]

If players have been showing down with weaker stuff than they should, then a push is definitely a good play. Regardless, you have to make them pay for their draws. Since the flush AND the straight draw are out there, I would have to price it high... $40 may be enough. But all clubs, 5's, Q's, K's, A's are scary cards. That's basically over 20 cards. If a scary card drops on the turn, will you fold after a bet? Will they check and let you check? I don't know. I kinda see your money going in on the turn anyway. So once again, I'm led to think you should push here. Pressure them. You're not probably not ahead by a lot, but it's better to be the aggressor here to get a chance to pick up some folded money, or to go to battle as slight favorite. Plus, there's the psychological aspect of them seeing you as aggressive in future hands.

[Dan Bitel]

j831526,

you're c/f every non-jack turn....wtf??

OP, the push is fine

[j831526]

You're right; I would NOT check-fold the turn. I should push now to avoid guessing later and to give my opponents the worst possible odds.

[SamuraiPlatypus]

i thought the push was crazy until i went back, re-read the hand history, and saw BB called as well. push is fine.