How much is "FEEL" part of your game?

[chezwiz75]

This subject really has me wondering lately. I have really been feeling that if I listen to my feelings / sixth sense or what have you that I would save myself money (even in circumstances where poker logic says I probably shouldn't). For instance set over set hands and what not. A LOT of times pre-flop I get a bad feeling about a hand before the action takes place even on AA. It is like I should fold it preflop even. I know this is crazy and would never do this but I would say that the majority of the times my gut tells me pre-flop or even post flop that it is gonna be bad it is. Even when there is a raise and I call with a pp and flop a set. Like today I was playing and I called the button with 77. I had the feeling even after I flopped the set that I was beat by another set. I went into call mode and actually did save myself some cash because I was actually beat by another set. Don't get me wrong this isn't the case all the time. I don't play poker thinking I am beat all the time it is just certain times when my gut is telling me that I AM beat and it turns out I am. So what do you do do you listen to your instincts and actually fold a set on a rainbow uncoordinated board or do you just say **** it and let it loose even though you "know" you are beat. So does anyone else ever get this feeling? Also how much do you actually think is feel and or knowledge of the game for post flop play? When you make a call on the river that maybe doesn't look like it would be a good idea but something is just telling you that it is just the right thing to do. Maybe I sound like a moron but hey that wouldn't be the first time. So lets hear it.

[bwadbwoy]

What is a paragraph?

[supane]

This is bs.
The reason you sometimes 'feel' that you should make a certain play even though it might not look that smart pokerwise is because you have been in that (almost) excact situation before. And even though you might not remember the situation your subconscious will.
I think feel is a good thing and that you should listen to it, of course you shouldnt follow it blind. Feel is experience.

This, however, has nothing to do with feel. It looks to me like you are just affraid of losing hands.

Folding AA preflop. What the [censored]? There is no way you can know wheather or not ppl will flop sets and most of the time they wont. are you superstitious?

And no you should not fold sets on rainbow flops, and your check calling line was probably bad even though he had a higher set. Most of the time you need a very good reason to fold a set

[chezwiz75]

I am not afraid to lose hands, if you play poker that is just a given fact that you are going to lose hands. As far as folding aces I have never and won't ever preflop, (except maybe in a certain tourney esceptions). I pretty much ALWAYS play my sets with aggression. There are instances though that I have had sets on non-scary flops and my instincts have told me I am beat and they were right.

What constitutes a "very good" reason? If, even on those flops, every part of your body is telling you you are beat that isn't a good enough reason? Having to call down or push just to see you are wrong is the right answer?

I really don't know how you can say this is bs. I do understand that a lot of this comes from prior experiences but I really think there is more to it at least in my game than that.

I have always thought that there were two different types of players. Those that play by feel and those that are more by the numbers.

Is that better for "paragraphs"?

[supane]

"but I really think there is more to it at least in my game than that."
Please eleborate this.
I think the occasions where feel will allow you to fold bottom set on non drawheavy board are very rare and most of the times you will just have the feeling beacuse you are affraid of playing a big pot (even though you might not be aware of this) /the rush of playing a big pot.

[JJNJustin]

Me too. I think the problem lies in the fact that we have absorbed a large amount of theoretical/intellectual information from books and from this site, and this tends to be the stronger source for decision making. However, this "feel" or vague sense sometimes interupts and gives us information to the contrary. You should almost always listen to your 6th sense because it is almost always right. It cant form a wrong "sense", it just wont form anything at all from lack of information. You just have to trust it when it starts to interupt your otherwise logical thought processes.

If you are a logical/intellectual kind of person, that is hard to do. But let your intellect be the judge of how often your "instinct" is correct. If you find your instinct to be correct almost 100% of the time, then surely it is logical to at least consider if not listen to it totally.

-J

[chezwiz75]

I am definetly NOT afraid of playing big pots. I have a good sense as to when to play a big pot. I guess I am alone on this topic.

[onetimeuse]

I couldn't even read this post cuz his avatar is meZmoriZing.

You could put the forum in a trance with that thing.

[portisfreak]

Had a roommmate who would fold KK and AA preflop because of "too much competition" and that he "always loses with these hands." Granted, he "felt" more comfortable calling an all in with second pair and spiking his kicker, so that's beside the point. His game was mega -EV.

Unlike him, I don't think you're inane. You probably feel really nervous PF about having a big hand beaten like him. Bad beats happen and the nature of NL makes them extremely painful to the point of superstition.

[Kurtiii]

I have the same experience with this "feeling", and i did regret it allways when i couldn´t bring myself to listen to my intuition because the things it told me seemed so unlikely.
Like folding when my gut told me 3rd pair is good, or calling a standart 2/3pot riverbet with top two, "knowing" i was up against a set and so on ... i can´t remember a single time that i did something against this feeling and was right :P.
I think it´s a crucial skill, and should probably be listed under "experience". And when you are in doubt, i think you should listen to this feeling.
But i think there are some hidden dangers one should be aware off. First and most obvious is tilting. If you are not thinking rational anyways, because you feel on top of the world or are furious, your "feeling" about a situation is mostly off. When, even slightly, tilting i think you should allways prefer the logical aproach over the gut decission.
Secound danger is to skip the logical thinking and play by feel only. Alot of players do that, once the understood the basics and developed a good feel for the game; they get kinda bored to do the pot odds every time, or asign a handrange. So they stop thinking and rely on their feel. This might work for a short period of time - but the longer you stop thinking about the handrange, preflop action, plan for turn/river etc. the more dull your "feeling" will get in my experience. Also i think that a sharp intuition is the product of your constant thinking during hands.
Third "danger" is mixing up your intuition with your hopes - for instance "feel the spade comming". In my opinion and experience, that´s just total nosence and should be recognized since it creeps into your mind so easy. But i´m beeing captain obvious now ..

all in all i think feel is, and should be, a part of your game. But it is never a substitute for logical thinking and good decission making based on facts/probabilities. It just can turn your decission slightly, or help making the correct move when you lack a lot of information - for instance a thin call against a very loose/aggresive opponent whom you can´t pin down on an accurate handrange.
If in doubt, i try to memorize my first feeling for a situation; then think it through and if i can´t find a clear decission, or my first intuition actually makes perfect sence once i thought a bit about it - ill go with it.