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  #11  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:38 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[ QUOTE ]
I would be suprised if the following assertion is not true:

Mason has exerted more effort fighting The Engineer than he has fighting the UIGEA.

Les

[/ QUOTE ]


LesJ,

Please don't mischaracterize the true situation here. The Engineer is free *and welcomed and encouraged* to post here to fight the UIGEA as long as he 1) identifies himself as a board member of the PPA, and 2) exercises the professional decorum expected of same (which baiting and attacking Mason isn't).

Also you are asserting an implicit premise, which is fallaceous, that Mason/2p2 has an obligation to you and any/all posters to take some specific action or actions to fight the UIGEA. Mason has provided this forum and allows us to strategize and discuss tactical methods free of charge. Yet you seem to think you can demand other various actions of him.

So don't come here and try to spin this into something that isn't a truthful representation of the facts.
  #12  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:43 PM
LesJ LesJ is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would be suprised if the following assertion is not true:

Mason has exerted more effort fighting The Engineer than he has fighting the UIGEA.

Les

[/ QUOTE ]


LesJ,

Please don't mischaracterize the true situation here. The Engineer is free *and welcomed and encouraged* to post here to fight the UIGEA as long as he 1) identifies himself as a board member of the PPA, and 2) exercises the professional decorum expected of same (which baiting and attacking Mason isn't).

Also you are asserting an implicit premise, which is fallaceous, that Mason/2p2 has an obligation to you and any/all posters to take some specific action or actions to fight the UIGEA. Mason has provided this forum and allows us to strategize and discuss tactical methods free of charge. Yet you seem to think you can demand other various actions of him.

So don't come here and try to spin this into something that isn't a truthful representation of the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff,

Which of the two have you HONESTLY spent more time on?

Fighting the PPA or Fighting UIGEA??

I think we all already know the answer to that, and that is one of the greatest reasons your arguments do not resonate with a greater number of people in this forum. You don't actually do anything. You just bitch about those that are.

Les
  #13  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:51 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

LesJ,

You can build all the strawmen and dangle all the red herrings you want, but that still doesn't make them valid. And if you really believe in your own strawman, then it only proves you don't think very well.

Here's a clue: fighting to make a better and more effective PPA is fighting the UIGEA.

And as I noted above, TE and the PPA are free to use these forums to urge posters to fight the UIGEA. They just aren't free to demand certain actions of Mason/2p2 or not conduct themselves in an open and professional manner. TE was doing this thing fine lately *until he felt it necessary to bait Mason and demand he take certain actions*, and *DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PPA REFUSES TO ADDRESS LEGITIMATE ISSUES OF BOARD COMPOSITION AND TRANSPARENCY.
  #14  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:02 PM
LesJ LesJ is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[ QUOTE ]
LesJ,

You can build all the strawmen and dangle all the red herrings you want, but that still doesn't make them valid. And if you really believe in your own strawman, then it only proves you don't think very well.

Here's a clue: fighting to make a better and more effective PPA is fighting the UIGEA.

And as I noted above, TE and the PPA are free to use these forums to urge posters to fight the UIGEA. They just aren't free to demand certain actions of Mason/2p2 or not conduct themselves in an open and professional manner. TE was doing this thing fine lately *until he felt it necessary to bait Mason and demand he take certain actions*, and *DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PPA REFUSES TO ADDRESS LEGITIMATE ISSUES OF BOARD COMPOSITION AND TRANSPARENCY.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the response I expected. Thanks for the verification.

Maybe I am ignorant, Bluff, but I didn't realize it had to be a zero-sum game for you. Surely as a poker player you are adept at multi-tasking. Are you saying that because you are critical of the PPA that you are somehow totally incapable of using any of your great talents to also fight the UIGEA? Maybe if you fought the regulations with the same ferocity that you fight the only organization that is working for us you would gain some credibility. Perhaps you would even win some people over to thought processes concerning the makeup of the Board of Directors. The only way the makeup of the Board will change is if the grass roots members of the PPA care enough to make it a priority. A couple of articulate, yet extremely INACTIVE naggers on an internet message board is not going to make it happen.

Les
  #15  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:09 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[ QUOTE ]
The only way the makeup of the Board will change is if the grass roots members of the PPA care enough to make it a priority

[/ QUOTE ]


And the only way that will happen is if those grass roots members are made aware of why they should care, and see erroneous arguments to the contrary rebutted.

And here's a clue: I've written my fair share of letters to Congress and emails to corporations *despite the fact* that is mostly a waste of time with my specific legislators (think Foes of Fun And Damn the WTO All The Way).

You can keep up with the ad hominems and strawmen and such you want (lol at zero sum game), but the issues won't go away *unless* they are addressed by the board.
  #16  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:21 PM
chrisptp chrisptp is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[x] would prefer this forum with regular participation of TE than without
  #17  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Uglyowl Uglyowl is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

Somehow pre-board appointment and post-board appointment has somehow made Engineer from a hard working guy fighting for our rights to a villian to some. What a shame
  #18  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Legislurker Legislurker is offline
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Posts: 728
Default Re: petition for the return of TE

Ive not made him a villain and I don't think Bluff has. Theres more than meets the eye to the friction between the PPA and Mason. This is Mason's place and TE got snide with him. Poker like most of life is full of egos. No one wants him gone that Im aware of. I don't think begging is seemly at all. We aren't the ragged stepchildren wanting acceptance from the PPA. You can't just hang out a sign, hand some mney to Congress, and say you're the representatives of poker. Well, you can, but expect to be called on it.
  #19  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:25 PM
fnord_too fnord_too is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would be suprised if the following assertion is not true:

Mason has exerted more effort fighting The Engineer than he has fighting the UIGEA.

Les

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be shocked if it was true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit - I completely mis read the original statement. I would agree with the statement you made [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] (thought you said Mason had exerted more effort fighting UIGEA than the engineer)
  #20  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:55 PM
IndyFish IndyFish is offline
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Default Re: petition for the return of TE

In the past month this forum has experienced a PPA- and TE-bashing free-for-all. When I first started lurking here a few months before UIGEA this was by far the most professional and informative forum I had seen. It got far, far better when TE began posting here. It has dropped significantly recently. Now there is only infighting, accusations, and whining about the PPA. Like it or not, PPA is the only game in town. They aren't perfect, but they are improving.

I hope TE returns, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he didn't. Just my $.02.

IndyFish
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