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  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:37 PM
psyduck psyduck is offline
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Default $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

Background: Danny Wong has been limp/calling a ridiculous range of hands preflop. He has shown down 83s to a button raise (he flats in big blind) and is literally limping into like 30% of pots preflop and calling with like 90% of his limping range when there's a raise.

Blinds 100/200 effective stacks like 10k, EP old guy looseish/passive limps and I make it 800 with 88 in MP. CO who has been calling a lot of my raises flats, Danny Wong flats in SB, old guy flats from UTG or whatever.

Flop T 6 4 rainbow. Check check, I bet out 1450, CO folds, Danny Wong eyes my stack, then looks at UTG who looks like he's about to fold, and then calls after about a minute or whatever. UTG folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] putting a flush draw out. He pauses and checks, I check behind after about 45 seconds.

River pairs the 4 and is offsuit. He leads 1500.


Thoughts? Check-fold flop? What about river? Danny Wong is ridiculously hard to play against postflop but he leaks way way way way too much preflop. Thoughts on double barrelling, and thoughts on bluffing the river once he block-bets like 1/4 pot or whatever?
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:10 PM
zizazziza zizazziza is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

I think i double barrel (shove?) if you think that he floats this often with crap hands. As played, I think you need to call his river bet.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:07 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

C-bet is fine, the board is pretty damn good for 88, I'd usually take a stab at it. Against players who like to hang around with crap, frequent double barreling is a good idea IMO.

Here, your hand could easily be good on the turn and isn't getting called by worse (or is it?, I don't know if your OP covers this), so checking is obviously OK.

As played, you have to call the river, bets this small aren't even worth thinking about most of the time. Checking behind the turn and then raising the river is a tough sell, unless you've been seen checking behind monsters in position on the turn prior to this hand. Not to mention you have no clue what he has, so you could be just donating a lot of chips by raising.
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:18 PM
psyduck psyduck is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

If you call with 88, do you also call with AK (ace-high)? From Danny Wong's perspective, is a 1/3 river bet bluff ever profitable after I've shown considerable flop strength by c-betting into 3 people?

Just things I was thinking about during the hand...


edit: I also didn't expect Danny to peel with 6x or 4x on the flop since again I was c-betting into multiple people and he is OOP. I also can't see him having total air because that would be an OOP float on a dry board etc etc which seems kinda insane!
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:26 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

The flop is really garbage, I see people c-bet with AK all the time on flops like that, some live players c-bet with AK/AQ regardless of board texture or number of players, I don't know how many hands you'd played against him for him to be able to know with certainty that you had better than AK/AQ when you c-bet the flop. Plus, honestly I'd be willing to burn the chips to see what he had even if I thought the chance of my hand being good was remote, but that's me.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2007, 09:27 PM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

Psyduck, given the read/information "he's not calling flop with 6x/4x....can't see him having total air"

That doesn't leave much we beat outside 77 or like 75. 75 bets bigger cause it wants you out. So i think only 77 plays like this, and it still might check down to you and let you bluff. So fold.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:36 PM
shaniac shaniac is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

i agree with todd...almost trivial call. Probably a call with AK, too.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:59 PM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

I don't get it, given the information psyduck provided, how's this trivial?
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:44 PM
furfur furfur is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

flop bet is so-so given # of opponents and a 10 flopping but u do want to see where u stand. after checking turn, u invite him to bet river and might call just to stop him from doing this later plus u may be ahead.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:18 AM
NYWalker NYWalker is offline
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Default Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong

[ QUOTE ]
Background: Danny Wong has been limp/calling a ridiculous range of hands preflop. He has shown down 83s to a button raise (he flats in big blind) and is literally limping into like 30% of pots preflop and calling with like 90% of his limping range when there's a raise.

Blinds 100/200 effective stacks like 10k, EP old guy looseish/passive limps and I make it 800 with 88 in MP. CO who has been calling a lot of my raises flats, Danny Wong flats in SB, old guy flats from UTG or whatever.

Flop T 6 4 rainbow. Check check, I bet out 1450, CO folds, Danny Wong eyes my stack, then looks at UTG who looks like he's about to fold, and then calls after about a minute or whatever. UTG folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] putting a flush draw out. He pauses and checks, I check behind after about 45 seconds.

River pairs the 4 and is offsuit. He leads 1500.


Thoughts? Check-fold flop? What about river? Danny Wong is ridiculously hard to play against postflop but he leaks way way way way too much preflop. Thoughts on double barrelling, and thoughts on bluffing the river once he block-bets like 1/4 pot or whatever?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read other's replies, so I don't know how everyone else's thinking about this hand. But, personally, I played with Danny Wong many times in HU pots. When stack is deep, he makes loose pf calls and is a station on the flop *as long as* he has a piece on the board. In such spot, the stronger you bet, the more he thinks you are bluffing... which means, when you flopped monster hands against him, he pays you off. But when you bluff, he's a station. When he's shadow, he plays very tight in all spots.

For this hand, I believe he has a T and he knows it's good at the river. You should fold the river. Fold the river here will give you better chance to stack off him next time when you are sure you have him because he'd make bad calls against you a lot.

Edit: turn bet won't get him fold a T.

Edit: IMO, his understanding of the game isn't at Internet Pro level. If you use too advanced concept against him trying to tell him your range beat his range, or play your hand like over pair on the flop, he can't get it.
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