KK - 3 bet pot, deep and OOP. Twice...

cs3 · #1 10-20-2007, 06:11 PM

HAND 1
villain is a weak/tight tagfish. hes at 19/8/.75 over a couple hundred hands. understands PF starting hands but that about it. super passive postflop and plays very conservatively. only showdowns 16% of his hands so he likes to fold. also misses value bets/raises like whoah. hasnt 3 bet me ever til this hand

ive been 24/20ish, 3betting PF fairly often, floaty, betting and raising a lot postflop.


Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $108.15
Hero (UTG): $187.15
MP: $198.10
CO: $100
BTN: $98.50
SB: $103

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K

dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $4, MP raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero calls $6
 i should probably 4 bet being this deep, but this is the first time hes 3 bet anyone at the table and his PFR is only 8. i feel like just calling the 3bet can yield more value vs this guy, but its def open for debate.
i feel like his range is QQ+, maaaybe AK, as ive seen him showdown hands where he flatted both AK and JJ PF. 

Flop: ($21.50) 6

9

Q

(2 Players)
Hero checks, MP checks
 meh, not really a great flop vs villains range me thinks. i check, planing to ch/c 

Turn: ($21.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $15, MP calls $15
you like this turn donk? this just felt really weird... what is this guys range now? 

River: ($51.50) 8

(2 Players)
HERO???
 ok wtf is the plan for the river? i have no idea what this guys is doing because he took a really weird with whatever he has
is this a c/c, c/r, b/c or b/f, and how much, etc??? really lost here...

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 HAND 2
villain is FoolsPlay, a regular at this limit. Hes very aggro postflop and loves to takes stabs at any pot that looks like its up for grab - my notes on him say hes bluffy/aggro/spewy at times/squeezes at every oppurtunity...
once he rasies PF he almost never folds to a 3bet when he has pos.
overall he runs at 20/17/4 over ~1K hands, but at the time of this hand he was at 3 of my tables for an hour and running ~26/21/6. i had already stacked him twice tonight and he seems pissed. hes been playing back at me quite a bit.

my image is same as above, as hnad 2 occurred at the same table, but much earlier in the session.

(i realize this hand isnt deep)


Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $78.80
Hero (SB): $145.50
BB: $182.50
UTG: $115.80
CO: $83.50

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K

dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero raises to $14, BB folds, UTG calls $10

Flop: ($29) T

6

T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks
looks like a safe flop. i think villains range is pretty wide, and i feel like hes more likely to bet if i check, than to call a bet. and if he checks he may call the turn with weaker than usual hands right? so I check planning to ch/rai 

Turn: ($29) T

(2 Players)
Hero bets $22, UTG calls $22
standard, given my flop check? 

River: ($73) Q

(2 Players) HERO???
 i think there are several options here and each has merit.

feedback appreciated on all streets

Sh@i'tan · #2 10-20-2007, 06:29 PM

hand 1 id b/f the river

hand 2 im either shoving or betting small with the intention to call a shove

edit: i dont like the flop check in hand 2. its just a board that a lot of hands would float you with on and id much rather be betting KK than checking it. im not sure how often you cbet in 3bet pots or how often fools is going to be floating you, but generally if someone is going to make moves in 3bet pots its on more innocent boards that are likely not to have hit the bulk of their opponents range. so with that said id much rather be betting than ch/ring the turn rather than checking with the intention of shoving on the flop. what hands are you bluffing with on a T6Tr board?

Bonk · #3 10-20-2007, 07:07 PM

Yeah leading hand 2 is really nice given history because if he's decent he knows that you're almost always c-betting A-hi on this flop and slow-playing stuff like KK.
Hand 1 b/f is good.

sh58 · #4 10-20-2007, 07:46 PM

i think the way you played hand 1 is reasonable. i'm not sure about 4betting because i have done it in similar spots and they have mucked QQ. i have also done it with QQ and they have mucked KK, so lol.

flop was fine. you had to lead turn. i would bet river, and see what he does, i would probably fold to any raise here as he is so passive.

hand 2 i keep betting till i am all in. i think you are being too tricky in this spot. definitely bet the river and call a shove

ajmargarine · #5 10-20-2007, 08:14 PM

Hand 2 I just don't like. When the 3bettor checks in a 3b pot, a regs radar should go up. He might bet with air and that's it and you get one bet out of him.

I would so rather bet and have him make a HUGE mistake by pushing over the top of you, then checking and having him make a small mistake and betting some of his junk.

Bet flop near pot. Push turn. Max pressure. Ship it.

JFsports · #6 10-20-2007, 08:25 PM

Hand 1 he's too passive for anything other than b/f on river. I think if you c/c you win the pot almost never.

Hand 2 I really don't like a flop c/r, all that succeeds in doing is making him fold. Given your reads, as the above posters said, bet and let him shove over the top

cs3 · #7 10-20-2007, 08:29 PM

AJ- any thoughts on hand 1?

i think you make good points regarding hand 2. as played, whats your paln on the river?

blah-blah-blah · #8 10-20-2007, 10:17 PM

hand 1: after he checks the flop and calls our turn bet we can rule out AK. according to your read that leaves QQ+. I c/f the river.

hand 2: bet the flop. as played shove.

Casper05 · #9 10-20-2007, 10:40 PM

not betting the river in Hand 2 would be terrible.

Hand 1 bet like 35 and valuetown his TT/JJ

cs3 · #10 10-21-2007, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not betting the river in Hand 2 would be terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
does he call ever a shove with like 99/JJ? or are we value betting like 1/2 pot here?

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 bet like 35 and valuetown his TT/JJ

[/ QUOTE ]
so youre all about calling a shove? does he shove worse than AA here?