A value shove

[yad]

So this is a hand that is totally standard for me, and frankly I think there is no other way to play it. I get the sense that some of you would disagree, though. I think that's bad, but maybe you can convince me otherwise.

Villain is a mediocre 35/15 type.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $44.20
Button: $52.95
Hero: $187.95
BB: $61.40

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, BB calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($8, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $17</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $118</font>

That's definitely a value bet, btw.

[cbloom]

Pretty bad IMHO

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
That's definitely a value bet, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know what a value bet is? plz give a range of hands that calls this bet.

[yad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's definitely a value bet, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know what a value bet is? plz give a range of hands that calls this bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

any pair, any flush draw, TJ. I make this play all the time, and you would be amazed the range of hands that mediocre players will call you with.

this type of player almost never has a Q here, IMO. sometimes he has TT, or 9T, but that's life.

[poker1O1]

Board: Qh Qd 9d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.027% 25.66% 04.37% 17528 2983.50 { 9c8c }
Hand 1: 69.973% 65.61% 04.37% 44815 2983.50 { QQ, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, A9s, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, K9s, Q8s+, J9s+, Jd8d, T9s, Td8d, 97s+, 8d7d, 8d6d, 7d6d, 6d5d, 5d4d, AQo, KQo, QJo, JTo }

[Phytopath]

why do you think this is a good play? I think this is definately a bad play.

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's definitely a value bet, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know what a value bet is? plz give a range of hands that calls this bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

any pair, any flush draw, TJ. I make this play all the time, and you would be amazed the range of hands that mediocre players will call you with.

this type of player almost never has a Q here, IMO. sometimes he has TT, or 9T, but that's life.

[/ QUOTE ]

yad this is a bluff. There is no way you are ahead of villains calling range. Congrats if villain did something stupid once.

[pokeriseasy]

You do realize if he calls you with TJ or a flush draw with two overs he's a fave? This is a bluff push, it's not a value raise. This is bad if you're doing it for value, if you're doing it because you think most of the time villain is FOS and you can get him off better hands then it's not so bad.

[yad]

you are getting 1.5:1 odds when he calls. so while you'd rather he fold, you are fine with him calling you with a FD and overs.

The thing is, when this type of player raises this type of flop after flat calling preflop, he:

1. almost never has a Q. This is because it's hard to flop trips, many Q-having hands RR preflop, and also in my experience this type of player at this level will not raise this flop if he does happen to have a Q.

2. almost never has a PP higher JJ+ (bc of preflop).

If you disagree with the above, then we will disagree about the hand.

anyway, given the above you are basically only losing to T9, or maybe TT (this kinda guy might not RR that even in a blind battle).

he is bluffing with air a lot, though, and semibluffing flush draws all the time, and making this play a ton with mid-PPs.

There is already $23 in the pot. he has $50 left in his stack. you could argue that calling and getting things in on a safe turn is better. maybe it is. but folding here is very bad IMO.

[ikestoys]

yad theres about 3 major things wrong in your last post, its gonna take me awhile to process it