easy fold with "the nuts"?

[philipsaurus]

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $124.80
CO: $78.10
Hero (BTN): $740
SB: $595.15
BB: $1,012.70
UTG: $529.70

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls $4, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $18</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $62</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $208</font>, UTG folds, Hero ...


err reads:

utg limper is a pretty big donk, he is 59/14 and calling preflop raises fairly liberally

sb is a tag that i havent seen at the tables before, but is 3betting a ton, i have it at 17% through ~150 hands if that matters

bb is also a tag, 20/15/3 ... seems nittier than most preflop, but you know never know.

i run at 22/17, and i'm isolating the fish alot. im sure both of the guys in the blinds know that.

anyway, this is an easy fold right? also, what about QQ here? KK?

[ikestoys]

turbo muck... very few players can 4bet cold and have it be a bluff

[jfish]

fold with no history. with established history of you and SB having wide ranges i get it in.

[aislephive]

I would fold pretty quickly, QQ as well. I'd probably puke all over my screen with KK and shove.

BB probably has a huge hand given your description and stack sizes are really bad for us to continue. FWIW, I &lt;3 bluffing there in BB's spot with these stacks (I'd have made it $155 or so though). But I don't expect him to be bluffing here.

[Triumph36]

your image this is an easy shove, depending on SB

edit - oops, didn't look at stacks. hmmmm. i'd be curious to know who the 2 players are (PM me if you like). that is [censored] close, but prob a fold.

[ski]

fold. I'd fold QQ also this deep. If u had the rep of a total nit I could maybe fold KK here, but I know you don't so KK=Shove.

[philipsaurus]

i folded after about 12 seconds.

my opinion of bb is that he is like bluffing here almost never, BUT at the moment (timing, feel, etc + me and sb dont show up with hands in that spot v often), it felt like if there was a time when he would 4bet light, this would be it.

meh, no balls though.

triumph, i pm'ed you the guys screen names.

also, i am going to assume that bb at least somewhat views me as a tagfish, and prob not capable of big laydowns.

[philipsaurus]

ski or anyone else,

do you think his cold 4betting range is wider, smaller, or indifferent at 200bb, as compared to 100bb?

[rand]

its tighter, much
the relevant stack isnt so much yours as it is the 3bettors though, which makes it more like 150 deep, but i still think he has KK AA almost always

i 4bet bluff in these spots sometimes but there has to be a good reason for it

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
ski or anyone else,

do you think his cold 4betting range is wider, smaller, or indifferent at 200bb, as compared to 100bb?

[/ QUOTE ]

A bit of both depending on villain. My range tends to be wider as in I'll be more likely to run a bluff here since the reraiser likely needs a huge hand to continue, and his range is pretty wide to begin with. However, when I'm deeper I'm not 4betting for value with as many hands. 100bbs deep, I'm constantly 4bet/calling with TT/JJ/AK and sometimes AQ, but 200bbs deep I'm not going to want to get it in with any less than KK here unless I had some sick history.

This hand is sorta wierd though because BB probably doesn't even factor us in to the equation. By that I mean he knows we have a huge opening range, and facing this action we're folding a huge percentage of the time. He is focusing on the SB, and therefore could be 4betting with a different frequency given stack sizes.

I didn't explain that very well, but basically what I mean in the form of an example is this: We both have 500bbs, and SB has 100bbs. With this same action we can assume his 4betting range likely includes a lot of hands for value, since he is basically 4betting with 100bb stacks because we're basically not a factor since we fold so often.