Craps - Any Difference Between Cards And Dice?

[IggyWH]

I've been a major degen lately going to the casinos multiple times a week. I did love Viejas, but they have sucked me dry these last couple weeks so I recently switched it up and have went to Sycuan, a place I hate because I think it looks like a dump.

Sycuan has craps, and I've never played craps before, so I gave it a try. Beginners luck I'm sure, but I've been on a damn good run, especially since I didn't have a clue what was going on when I first started, but eventually picked up the action and bets.

Now in CA, you're not allowed to have dice, so they have cards. Is there any real difference with the cards? I have no clue how the cards are shuffled or whatever, so I get into the mindset of "I haven't seen a 7 lately" or "There's been way too many 6's for me to lay full odds on it this time".

Can someone set me straight on how these damn cards are handled and if I'm stupid for the above thoughts (which I'm sure I am, I just need it explained why)?

[Annorax]

IIRC, two 20-deck shoes with only A-6 in them, and each "roll" is a card from each shoe.

Can't imagine much advantage (or possibility) in counting two separate shoes.

[Poshua]

Here the Wizard of Odds describes several different methods that California casinos use to simulate craps. The first method he describes (from Pala) is mathematically equivalent to regular craps.

The other two methods (Barona and Harrah's Rincon) are slightly different, because they're shoe-dealt. This isn't exactly the same as ordinary craps, because each "roll" is not independent. Drawing a 6 from the shoe on one roll reduces the odds of drawing a 6 on the next.

That is tempting, because it initially sounds like you might be able to count cards like in blackjack. However, I suspect it's impossible to gain an advantage by doing so because (1) they're using two shoes simultaneously and the outcome is based on the sum of cards from each, (2) the shoes are 13 decks each (in the case of Barona), and (3) lots of cards get burned, which means shoe penetration is necessarily poor.

So, I think you've accurately diagnosed the accuracy of your intuitions as beginner's luck. Have fun.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Here the Wizard of Odds describes several different methods that California casinos use to simulate craps. The first method he describes (from Pala) is mathematically equivalent to regular craps.

The other two methods (Barona and Harrah's Rincon) are slightly different, because they're shoe-dealt. This isn't exactly the same as ordinary craps, because each "roll" is not independent. Drawing a 6 from the shoe on one roll reduces the odds of drawing a 6 on the next.

That is tempting, because it initially sounds like you might be able to count cards like in blackjack. However, I suspect it's impossible to gain an advantage by doing so because (1) they're using two shoes simultaneously and the outcome is based on the sum of cards from each, (2) the shoes are 13 decks each (in the case of Barona), and (3) lots of cards get burned, which means shoe penetration is necessarily poor.

So, I think you've accurately diagnosed the accuracy of your intuitions as beginner's luck. Have fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

It definitely was beginners luck.

The "roll" went right into the machine after it was "rolled" so I wondered if it got shuffled in right away or what.

I had fun though so I guess that's what counts.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]

It definitely was beginners luck.

The "roll" went right into the machine after it was "rolled" so I wondered if it got shuffled in right away or what.

I had fun though so I guess that's what counts.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like a continuous shuffler, which means there is no possibility of counting cards.

[mingorama]

Harrah's is the only place in San Diego that I know of where you use dice. They have a red and a green, and then lay out 6 red cards (1 through 6) and 6 greens. They'll flip the cards according to your dice roll. Absolutely the same odds-wise to dice. Crummy part is that they only offer 2x odds. Barona offers 5x odds on any number, which is nice, but they only have one table, and it's a continuious shuffler. Pechanga offers the same standard 3,4,5x odds you see in Vegas, but they just pull cards from two shoes. They cut so much of the cards out (well over 60%) that I can't imagine that you would ever be able to gain a statistical advantage, even if you could memorize the discards from each shoe. Again, you're just as subject to the luck of the cards as you are the luck of the dice.