JJ in blinds with 3 raise callers. Raise or Call?

Kyle Flynn · #1 07-15-2007, 12:32 PM

20$/20K Gtd.

Table has been somewhat aggressive. Opens have been large anywhere from 3-4.5x's bb at 15/30 level. I've 3bet to 270 an aggro player and had a 1K stack 4bet-shove over my 3bet. I called, lost my overcard race AQ vs 88. Down to ~2K, 20 minutes in.

This is the hand in question:
Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1519
UTG+1: t3115
MP1: t2810
MP2: t3600
MP3: t2875
CO: t7343
Button: t2915
Hero: t1873
BB: t6480

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls t30 (pot was t45), UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t120, MP2 calls t120 (pot was t195), MP3 calls t120 (pot was t315), 2 folds, Hero ??

What is the preferred play?

-- Would you raise and try to isolate this hand against a single player? If so how much?

-- Just call for set value, because we're out of position?

-- Raise it, and be the first to get it in on almost any decent flop?

Pokerfarian · #2 07-15-2007, 12:36 PM

There's 435 in the pot & you have 1800 chips in SB....shove it all in now

Kyle Flynn · #3 07-15-2007, 01:23 PM

Just shove 60 bb's. Hmm.

Dunkman · #4 07-15-2007, 01:47 PM

Any raise you make has to be a push because the pot size and the size of your stack. You can't raise to 700 then fold to a push, that's stupid. Just calling here with JJ is incredibly weak, it certainly rates to be the best hand. QQ+ is a small part of the range for an aggressive MP raiser, and you are almost certainly ahead of MP2 and MP3. Also, a lot of the time you get looked up here by middle pairs who put you on AK. I don't see any play here but a shove.

gimmetheloot · #5 07-15-2007, 01:49 PM

what about making it 600 or so and shoving a PSB at the flop?

seems sort of like a slightly cooler SNG...

usha · #6 07-15-2007, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what about making it 600 or so and shoving a PSB at the flop?

seems sort of like a slightly cooler SNG...

[/ QUOTE ]

600 will give all the villains very good odds for calling and Stop and Go will be called on most flops with overcards.

I shove now

Wayneo · #7 07-15-2007, 02:31 PM

I call, and see how the flop plays. I don't think shoving here is the right play in the long run. Why do you want to risk so much early on in the tournament? Nothing you can beat calls you apart from maybe AK, and to risk 1800 to pick up 435 is suicide.

Dunkman · #8 07-15-2007, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what about making it 600 or so and shoving a PSB at the flop?

seems sort of like a slightly cooler SNG...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is a move and it's called a go-and-go. However, it allows your opponents with overs to fold when they miss and call when they hit, which isn't exactly what we're looking for. It's a better move with some crap that's still behind when you both miss rather than a hand that's ahead when you both miss. Anyway, you're a huge favorite if they miss the flop, so I don't really see the benefit of this move over a shove PF.

Pokerfarian · #9 07-15-2007, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and to risk 1800 to pick up 435 is suicide.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not a bad ratio preflop

Kyle Flynn · #10 07-15-2007, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what about making it 600 or so and shoving a PSB at the flop?

seems sort of like a slightly cooler SNG...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... calling is pretty weak. Especially given the tables description (which I somewhat provided above).

I like the quote above; its a nice line. It appeals to me very much. One reason, it hopefully gets rid of a couple players. JJ plays much better against one player. Another reason, is you might be able to prevent two overcards (if they call your 3bet)from connecting on the river/turn?

-But I feel like, calling and evaluating the flop is not a HORRIBLE idea.