Live 10/20 hand. Disregard my pf read?

KarlSpakler · #1 07-05-2007, 05:26 AM

10/20 live hand from Commerce.

I have been at the table for about 3 hours. My image is taggish. I had not shown down many hands but steadily built my stack.

A couple players were taking a break so we were seven handed. UTG folds, I raise 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to 80. Folds to button who raises to 240. Effective stacks 6K, he covers me comfortably.

Button has been playing very similar to me, maybe a bit tighter. I had seen him playing before, but never at my table. He seemed sharp and we had not played any pots against each other. I put him on a very limited range based on a couple comments he made to others during hands. I weighted AA-QQ very heavily, with slight consideration to AKs or JJ.

Blinds fold. I call. We take this flop heads up:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Oh no! I flopped a set. What am I doing in this hand?

I check, he bets $400. I call.

Turn:

5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check. He bets $800. I call.

River:

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check. He bets $1100. I call. He shows me three queens.

Can I fold the river?
Can I beat anything?
Could I have gotten away earlier and cheaper?

Teddie · #2 07-05-2007, 05:38 AM

check-raise the flop. If he shoves then you have something to consider.

check-calling all the way down isnt good as you never know where you stand in the hand.

rosso87 · #3 07-05-2007, 05:58 AM

yeah firt thing i thought was raise the flop when he bets to get a good idea of where you are, especially considering you put him on that range preflop so you shouldn't disregard it.

if you raise and he reraises then you can maybe lay it down.

if he just flat calls your raise you can put him on one of the hands you did preflop and get away from it on the turn.

crunny · #4 07-05-2007, 06:07 AM

If the range you give villain is accurate then you played this fine up until the river. Either b/f or c/f the river.

Specialwon · #5 07-05-2007, 06:21 AM

Set over set is just a horrible situation and mostly youre getting stacked, so firstly well played for not losing every chip.

I don't much care for your initial pf raise. Obv you have a much better chance of taking a blank flop down with a c-bet, but you will likely not get much action if you hit your set. In a way it's a semi bluff. I much prefer to do this in late position, ideally behind a limper who's willing to limp-call.

Now, I think calling the 3bet was a clear mistake. You have a tight image. Button will make you for, what? TT-AA, AQ AK? So, your semi bluff just got called.

Even without reads, you have to expect the button to have a massive hand here, QQ-AA and AKs. JJ is improbable. So, you have no realistic hope of stealing the flop if you miss your set. In that situation, I fold bc it won't do simply to make your set. You need to see like AK on the flop as well as your 6, to give villain something like 2 pair, or else why should he pay you off big?

The flop obv was terrible for you but as I say, what flop would have made him put 2500+ against your set?

I agree that a c/r on the flop to find out where you stand is preferable, but I don't know if it would have saved you any money, if he had flat called it might have made it worse. Think yourself lucky he didn't make you pay more!

In a way it was unlucky for you that you were playing so deep, standard 100bb and you would have been automatically out of range after the 3bet. Did the deep stacks maybe cause you to make a play you wouldn't normally make?

So, in answer to your questions

1. I don't think you can fold the river as played.
2. You beat AK, possibly KK and a very unlikely AQ.
3. See above

Specialwon · #6 07-05-2007, 07:11 AM

Just a final thought, could you maybe have turned your hand face up and watch his face before you decide on the river call? I seem to remember that's legal and it would be a way of getting a final read.

Teddie · #7 07-05-2007, 08:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just a final thought, could you maybe have turned your hand face up and watch his face before you decide on the river call? I seem to remember that's legal and it would be a way of getting a final read.

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Ugh, i seriously doubt it is allowed, but ffs, do any poker players have morals?

Its like people who use the disconnection protection, complete scum imo.

threads13 · #8 07-05-2007, 09:05 AM

I stoved this range giving a 50% discount to JJ and AKs. You are 60% favorite. Is he the type of player that is going to bet the flop with KK and JJ? I think that is important. If he doesn't have AKs or JJ in his range then you are have 48% equity. I think if this guy is tight then you are going to run into a problem that when you get all your money in he is going to show up with AA/QQ nearly all of time.

I am fine with the c/c on the flop if you think he will do this with KK/JJ. However, I think you could bet out on the turn. If he raises you on the turn he has a set an overwhelming majority of the time. I think this is better than betting the flop because if you get raised you are going to have to be put the decision for the hand right then where this could be less than a set.

I don't think the way you played it is terrible though. Once he bets the turn he either has top-pair or better, with top pair being less likely. I am fine with calling this bet here if you are going in with the plan of a c/f on the river. If he bets the river he is very unlikely to have AKs. Your hand becomes a bluff catcher on the river.

crunny · #9 07-05-2007, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I stoved this range giving a 50% discount to JJ and AKs. You are 60% favorite. Is he the type of player that is going to bet the flop with KK and JJ? I think that is important. If he doesn't have AKs or JJ in his range then you are have 48% equity. I think if this guy is tight then you are going to run into a problem that when you get all your money in he is going to show up with AA/QQ nearly all of time.

I am fine with the c/c on the flop if you think he will do this with KK/JJ. However, I think you could bet out on the turn. If he raises you on the turn he has a set an overwhelming majority of the time. I think this is better than betting the flop because if you get raised you are going to have to be put the decision for the hand right then where this could be less than a set.

I don't think the way you played it is terrible though. Once he bets the turn he either has top-pair or better, with top pair being less likely. I am fine with calling this bet here if you are going in with the plan of a c/f on the river. If he bets the river he is very unlikely to have AKs. Your hand becomes a bluff catcher on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice reply. I pretty much agree with all of this.

Specialwon · #10 07-05-2007, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a final thought, could you maybe have turned your hand face up and watch his face before you decide on the river call? I seem to remember that's legal and it would be a way of getting a final read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, i seriously doubt it is allowed, but ffs, do any poker players have morals?

Its like people who use the disconnection protection, complete scum imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I actually read this in Super System. That's Doyle youre talking about there.