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#1
06-10-2007, 12:09 PM
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Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
Live $1/$2 NL - ~$250 Stacks
I'm in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG (semi-loose, aggressive, a bit flakey on his reads, but loves to re-raise a LOT) MP (average player) LP (fairly tight, good player) UTG raises to $7 -- he's done this a few times with pocket pairs, and big kings, loves to re-raise with middle pairs. EP1 calls, EP2 calls, MP raises to $17. LP calls. Button calls. What do I do? 
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#2
06-10-2007, 12:47 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
There is no better time than now to fold AK. It is only a good heads up hand against lower pocket pairs.
Some say a push is proper here, but with so many in pot, after a raise re raise, you gotta put one on aa or kk. Most likely qq jj too. I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. I fold here, as hard as it is to do. AK is still only a drawing hand. PM me the results.
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#3
06-10-2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
Flat call.
Worst thing that happens is that everyone calls and you play a multiway pot with AK... I would actually hope that UTG reraises to like $70 or something so that I could push when it gets back to me. You could make an argument for putting in a big reraise now but the stack sizes are a little awkward and you are OOP.
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#4
06-10-2007, 01:24 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money...
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#5
06-10-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
3 pocket pairs vs AK. I just don't see where youd want to bein this hand. Even if its 44, 55, and 99. Set probability is high, and take into consideration your only gonna pair 1/3 of the time.
Could be in a lotta trouble here. Now, if the first raiser is a nuttball...then sure, maybe push. The reraiser may be thinking its a nutty raise anyway, so he may fold to your raise. I just dont like ak. It has cost me more than it has won me. :[[[ An even worse situation is having ak vs kk or aa. Then your no longer a coinflip...heads up. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money... [/ QUOTE ]
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#6
06-10-2007, 03:56 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money... [/ QUOTE ] This implies you can play perfectly on each street. In reality you will lose more finding out your TPTK is no good after the flop than you will make when it is good.
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#7
06-10-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money... [/ QUOTE ] This implies you can play perfectly on each street. In reality you will lose more finding out your TPTK is no good after the flop than you will make when it is good. [/ QUOTE ] I was talking about trying to get as much $ in preflop as possible, which would eliminate or simplify postflop play. That's why I suggested flat calling trying to get UTG+1 to reraise, potentially trapping some of the people in between b4 you poosh.
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#8
06-10-2007, 05:54 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money... [/ QUOTE ] This implies you can play perfectly on each street. In reality you will lose more finding out your TPTK is no good after the flop than you will make when it is good. [/ QUOTE ] I was talking about trying to get as much $ in preflop as possible, which would eliminate or simplify postflop play. That's why I suggested flat calling trying to get UTG+1 to reraise, potentially trapping some of the people in between b4 you poosh. [/ QUOTE ] I see the connection with your other post now. Given the observation that UTG likes to repop mid pairs I think the call/push is good. Have to be careful if it does end up 4 way though.
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#9
06-10-2007, 06:58 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't like being up against one pocket pair holding ak, let alone potentially 3. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Against 3 players you have like 30% equity and are putting in 25% of the money... [/ QUOTE ] This implies you can play perfectly on each street. In reality you will lose more finding out your TPTK is no good after the flop than you will make when it is good. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure we are at 30% equity. It took a while (~2 hours), but I ran this through Poker Stove (enumerating all ~4 trillion outcomes): [ QUOTE ] 3,932,461,032,192 games 7362.476 secs 534,122,085 games/sec equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 26.335% 26.19% 00.15% 1029826719504 5795329032.00 { AKo } Hand 1: 24.555% 24.23% 00.32% 952959004344 12653990208.00 { 22+ } Hand 2: 24.555% 24.23% 00.32% 952959004344 12653990208.00 { 22+ } Hand 3: 24.555% 24.23% 00.32% 952959004344 12653990208.00 { 22+ } [/ QUOTE ] So, it's a very very slight margin. And this is assuming 3 pocket pairs from 22-AA. The times you push this margin and are against AA or KK, you are really in bad shape, right?
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#10
06-10-2007, 07:19 PM
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Re: Live $1/$2 NL: Fold AKo Pre-Flop, OOP After Aggressive Betting?
[ QUOTE ]
And this is assuming 3 pocket pairs from 22-AA. The times you push this margin and are against AA or KK, you are really in bad shape, right? [/ QUOTE ] Well, yeah if someone has AA you are in bad shape obv. You are like 6% or something vs AA. But you are like 30% vs KK. Anyway lets just say that our plan works...you flat call and UTG raises to $70, one other person calls, and it gets back to you. There is now like $190 in the pot or something..more if someone else calls (very possible in a live game). So you can push with good FE - I suspect you only get called by a very narrow range - if you do get called you have plenty of equity vs that range given the $$$ in the pot. Of course this is all best case scenario...the pot could just end up like 9 million handed which would not be so great for you, but not terrible, or UTG could reraise and it could back to you HU which would be a tricky spot. Worth a try though imo. And better than folding for sure, and probably better than reraising yourslef given the stack sizes and fact that you are OOP.
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