Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven - Page 11

PLOlover · #**101** 08-10-2007, 03:02 AM

Matt 18: 2-6

I don't think you understand this passage if you think jesus is saying that all children go to heaven.

as far as hell I read all your cited passages and they seem to be the same metaphorical stuff as the baby.

again the only example I find in the bible says that satan shall be tormented eternally in lake of fire, and that people who don't pass judgement will suffer "second death" by being thrown into lake of fire.

Max Raker · #**102** 08-10-2007, 03:04 AM

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That verse you quoted is probably from the King James Version amirite? I understand it since I grew up on a KJV. Look it up in the New Int'l Version. It'll make alot more sense.

Now you understand why the Bible is been translated so many different ways.

No, I didn't make that up. And Jesus was very clear. Like I said...look it up in the NIV & it will be easier to understand.

No, I wouldn't give $10m away. That's not what he's saying. It's kinda two fold. I interpret the camel part to mean that anything is possible with God's help. The rich part meaning if you are rich in wordly possessions so that it stands between you & a personal relationship with Jesus, then you won't see the Kingdom of Heaven. In Jesus' time, the Pharisees were the wealthy ruling class of Jews & they were arrogant & pretty much hated Jesus. So he was using that as a 'springboard' if you will for a lesson.

Don't misinterpret that though....I know alot of wealthy people who are extremely devout Christians.

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So why can't you admit that you are interpreting what Jesus said and it is your opinion? You might be wrong since a resonably person could have a differnt view. You make a good point about how you have to interpret waht Jesus said based on his time and his audience. Since these things are often not from the Bible itself but from historical records they could be wrong. I

PLOlover · #**103** 08-10-2007, 03:05 AM

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He said that their is reason to hope that babies can go to heaven. The Pope doesn't want to pray to a god that punishes babies for eternity any more than you do.

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I'm 99% sure it had to do with money. eg, the family of a dead baby would have to pay the church or pay more (for burial, funeral services, baptism, etc.) depending on which way the pope set the doctrine.

Justin A · #**104** 08-10-2007, 03:45 AM

RE: Camel's and the eye of the needle.

The eye of the needle is a little doorway that was kept open when the city gates were shut after dark. A camel could still fit through, it was just very very difficult.

Brad1970 · #**105** 08-10-2007, 09:06 AM

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I honestly don't remember even reading the OP but it is complete lunacy. Why people even dream such questions is beyond me. But here's my $.02.

1. What he is proposing is a sin, immoral, & a capital crime punishable by death. Next.

2. If the person is a born again Christian & guaranteed to go to heaven, when they die is immaterial. The proposed 'corruption' is immaterial.

So you would you be killing an innocent person for no reason other than to get them to heaven a nanosecond sooner. Thanks but no thanks. I'll go when God calls me.

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1. Cool, who cares?
2. No, he is killing people who are NOT born-agains, they are children who have not yet had a chance. What % of children go on to become saved as adults, in your opinion? Well, if its less than 100%, this method is FAR better.

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The OP does not say anything about children. Might want to read it again.

Brad1970 · #**106** 08-10-2007, 09:11 AM

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Matt 18: 2-6

I don't think you understand this passage if you think jesus is saying that all children go to heaven.

as far as hell I read all your cited passages and they seem to be the same metaphorical stuff as the baby.

again the only example I find in the bible says that satan shall be tormented eternally in lake of fire, and that people who don't pass judgement will suffer "second death" by being thrown into lake of fire.

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Read the rest of the passages I quoted. Its pretty cut & dried.

Yeah their called parables. Jesus used alot of them in his teachings.

You're right about Satan & unbelievers spending eternity in hell. So what's your question here? Are you looking for more examples??

Brad1970 · #**107** 08-10-2007, 09:27 AM

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That verse you quoted is probably from the King James Version amirite? I understand it since I grew up on a KJV. Look it up in the New Int'l Version. It'll make alot more sense.

Now you understand why the Bible is been translated so many different ways.

No, I didn't make that up. And Jesus was very clear. Like I said...look it up in the NIV & it will be easier to understand.

No, I wouldn't give $10m away. That's not what he's saying. It's kinda two fold. I interpret the camel part to mean that anything is possible with God's help. The rich part meaning if you are rich in wordly possessions so that it stands between you & a personal relationship with Jesus, then you won't see the Kingdom of Heaven. In Jesus' time, the Pharisees were the wealthy ruling class of Jews & they were arrogant & pretty much hated Jesus. So he was using that as a 'springboard' if you will for a lesson.

Don't misinterpret that though....I know alot of wealthy people who are extremely devout Christians.

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So why can't you admit that you are interpreting what Jesus said and it is your opinion? You might be wrong since a resonably person could have a differnt view. You make a good point about how you have to interpret waht Jesus said based on his time and his audience. Since these things are often not from the Bible itself but from historical records they could be wrong. I

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Of course it's an interpretation. How many times have I said...in this thread no less...that there are multiple versions of the same Bible and multiple denominations out there in the world???? Can you people not read?

If you think this interpretation is incorrect, then my all means get somebody else like NotReady to take a stab at it. You won't offend me. I'm trying to get you all to read these passages for yourself so you can form your own ideas. Me giving you the answers, then defending myself isn't helping you understand Chrisitanity when most of you have never cracked open a Bible.

Brad1970 · #**108** 08-10-2007, 09:49 AM

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He said that their is reason to hope that babies can go to heaven. The Pope doesn't want to pray to a god that punishes babies for eternity any more than you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 99% sure it had to do with money. eg, the family of a dead baby would have to pay the church or pay more (for burial, funeral services, baptism, etc.) depending on which way the pope set the doctrine.

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Unbelievable

bunny · #**109** 08-10-2007, 10:14 AM

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Of course it's an interpretation. How many times have I said...in this thread no less...that there are multiple versions of the same Bible and multiple denominations out there in the world???? Can you people not read?

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The point seems to me to hinge on how certain a believer can be. I would be interested in how correct you think you are? Given you think one thing, NotReady another, the Pope something else...Are all three of those theological viewpoints equally likely to be true? If there is some doubt in your mind about some parts of your beliefs, does it diminish your confidence in the other beliefs? You have identified a number of "core" doctrines which you say all christians share, yet there are people who have gone through similar processes to you and who disagree. The fact that there is an ultimate answer is one thing. It seems to me that knowing what that answe is remains just as difficult to a theist as an atheist.

Brad1970 · #**110** 08-10-2007, 10:29 AM

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Of course it's an interpretation. How many times have I said...in this thread no less...that there are multiple versions of the same Bible and multiple denominations out there in the world???? Can you people not read?

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The point seems to me to hinge on how certain a believer can be. I would be interested in how correct you think you are? Given you think one thing, NotReady another, the Pope something else...Are all three of those theological viewpoints equally likely to be true? If there is some doubt in your mind about some parts of your beliefs, does it diminish your confidence in the other beliefs? You have identified a number of "core" doctrines which you say all christians share, yet there are people who have gone through similar processes to you and who disagree. The fact that there is an ultimate answer is one thing. It seems to me that knowing what that answe is remains just as difficult to a theist as an atheist.

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I am very confident in everything I have posted. I cannot speak to NR's heart because I haven't ever talked to him nor have I read all of his posts. Once again, I do not wish to discuss the Pope or the Catholic church in an open forum. But I will say that I would bet dollars to donuts that NR & myself pretty much agree on the vast majority of the scriptures & their meanings.

FWIW, I have no doubts about what I believe.

Bunny, all of the "core doctrines" you & I have discussed are straight out of the Word of God. There are only 2 core doctrines I have mentioned to you...that Jesus is the only way & there is a hell....one of which you don't believe no matter how many scriptures I show you saying otherwise.