Everything but preflop is up for debate 5/5 live

HOWMANY · #1 08-14-2007, 05:10 AM

This is one of those hands that is basically played the complete opposite of how it would go down in a limit holdem game so this seemed like the place to post it.

Loose passive 5/5 1k max buyin live game. Villain has about $600 I cover. Villain is slightly tighter than the rest of the table but still bad, sizes his bets horribly preflop and postflop, plays bad hands, doesn't take position/stack sizes or any other important things into consideration. I've played with him a bit in 20 and 40 minbet games so he probably knows I'm tight and not a moron so it's not like he's going to instantly stack off with middle pair against me.

3 dummies limp including villain in HJ, I limp on the button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (Pot $25)
Check to villain who bets $20, CO folds, I raise to $60, fold to villain who calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot $145)
Check/check

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
He bets $50 I call

I'm not seeing how he can realistically call with a worse hand here, but not raising the second nuts just seems so unnatural to me.

Turn check is good I think? Flush draw and QT got there so he might be folding like everything I beat if I bet anyway.

Flop raise good, bad, neither?

calcbandit · #2 08-14-2007, 05:30 AM

I would only ever raise that river as a bluff. You have the 2nd nuts, don't bluff. But you're right it does seem weird.

The flop raise is good I think. Lot's of turn cards can freeze you up so I like getting it in there. And plenty will call you too, since there are so many draws on the board. If he has a pair of 10's he could put you on the potential heart draw. Or maybe he himself has the heart draw or straight draw.

DeathDonkey · #3 08-14-2007, 06:14 AM

In a normal NL game I think you should just call the flop at least sometimes, in this game I think the raise is good and standard because these guys make it so easy for you you don't have to stack manage quite so well and you can risk bloating the pot a bit. Whole hand seems fine really you could do a very small river raise and try to sell it.

-DeathDonkey

futuredoc85 · #4 08-14-2007, 07:29 AM

i would minraise river.

AZK · #5 08-14-2007, 09:38 AM

with 600 raise pre and raise this river

tyler_cracker · #6 08-14-2007, 02:41 PM

your flop raise seems kinda small. what is the reason for that -- to make it easier to get away if villain pushes back either here or on the turn? it seems like we are laying pretty attractive odds with a hand that would rather just take this pot down right now.

for those who advocate raising the river, can you fold to a 3bet? or are you just not worried about it?

Ryno · #7 08-15-2007, 02:10 AM

I like everything about this hand except...

The T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] seems so likely. There are a lot of live bad players who will hem and haw and know that you have the K or A of hearts here 100%, every time, but they call anyway. I think you should give him the chance to make a bad play. Even if you raise and he folds, and you don't show, there is some value to that.

I am influenced by him having enough $$ that you can raise and not commit yourself, folding to a 3-bet shove is pretty easy in this spot vs. the opponent you describe IMO.