AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[timmay28]

[ QUOTE ]
While trashing Absolute and everyone possibly associated with them continues to be the "hot topic" here, there are still thousands of players dropping "rake" to Absolute, totally ignorant of the situation or playing there even though they know what has been transpiring. These are the villains who should be flamed here. The fact that AP has not suffered a significant loss in players up to this point should be pissing you off huge! The only way to make AP pay attention is by disrupting their cashflow.

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QFFT. People that still play at Absolute are disgraceful imo.

[CITIZEN_114]

like others said before, the only thing we can do right now is hurt the playerpool of AP because it's totally logical that 2p2 can't keep the pressure on forever.

what seems possible is:
-Make sure that ppl that google absolute poker get the scandal on the first page.This can't be that hard and is imo the most important option to scare away some AP fish(if linked to a good article that makes clear AP is shady, not online poker in general)
-Pressure the whole pokerbussiness (affiliates/magazines/websites/...) to boycott AP for the time being (also because it just isn't a safe place to play compared to other major site's).
- ? there must be other ways and others have pointed out some but just wanted to repeat the google thing.

[zen_rounder]

oh just a thought here. people say why would a 250 million dolar business risk it all on a 800k they have stolen= the sums involved are far larger than people suspect. i imagine cjheating has goenon since the beggining and its likely innocent players have been defrauded of milions IMO [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Deuce2High]

[ QUOTE ]
oh just a thought here. people say why would a 250 million dolar business risk it all on a 800k they have stolen= the sums involved are far larger than people suspect. i imagine cjheating has goenon since the beggining and its likely innocent players have been defrauded of milions IMO [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

obv

[El Diablo]

All,

Now that Absolute has enlisted some possibly competent people for PR damage control, it looks like this is about to become a non-story with no long-term impact on Absolute. In fact, if a good chunk of solid multi-tabling 2+2ers boycott the site, it'll perhaps get a reputation as one of the most fun places to play online poker.

OK, time to move some $$$ to Absolute.

[burningyen]

[ QUOTE ]
people say why would a 250 million dolar business risk it all on a 800k they have stolen= the sums involved are far larger than people suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or the cheaters really were that stupid.

[mother_brain]

[ QUOTE ]
All,

Now that Absolute has enlisted some possibly competent people for PR damage control, it looks like this is about to become a non-story with no long-term impact on Absolute. In fact, if a good chunk of solid multi-tabling 2+2ers boycott the site, it'll perhaps get a reputation as one of the most fun places to play online poker.

OK, time to move some $$$ to Absolute.

[/ QUOTE ]

El D,

I'm really suprised at your view of this situation. Your posts hint at sarcasm but could also be logical points of view. Your passive approach to the situation is exactly what is going to lead to the outcome you predict.

I think maybe you're just leveling and hoping to light a fire under some people so that this thing can gain steam again.

I remember in one of your book threads you liked "Conspiracy of Fools" about the Enron scandal. With your knowledge of business and poker and corporate management, I would think that this is actually a subject you'd be quite interested in uncovering.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

El D,

I'm really suprised at your view of this situation. Your posts hint at sarcasm but could also be logical points of view. Your passive approach to the situation is exactly what is going to lead to the outcome you predict.

I think maybe you're just leveling and hoping to light a fire under some people so that this thing can gain steam again.

[/ QUOTE ]

To what end? Where is the power that is going to compel AP to do something? KGC could potentially pull the license, but if they don't, just about nobody involved has any interest in taking on KGC, because if anything got hairy for KGC it would have much wider ramifications for poker than just losing AP. In posts in other threads, adanthar has suggested that it is very unlikely that anybody will go to jail on this, which would be about the last threat. A boycott won't work, as explained elsewhere.

In light of all of this, what I'm interested in now is why AP has come clean even to the extent that they have. There's presumably something I'm missing.

[mother_brain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

El D,

I'm really suprised at your view of this situation. Your posts hint at sarcasm but could also be logical points of view. Your passive approach to the situation is exactly what is going to lead to the outcome you predict.

I think maybe you're just leveling and hoping to light a fire under some people so that this thing can gain steam again.

[/ QUOTE ]

To what end? Where is the power that is going to compel AP to do something? KGC could potentially pull the license, but if they don't, just about nobody involved has any interest in taking on KGC, because if anything got hairy for KGC it would have much wider ramifications for poker than just losing AP. In posts in other threads, adanthar has suggested that it is very unlikely that anybody will go to jail on this, which would be about the last threat. A boycott won't work, as explained elsewhere.

In light of all of this, what I'm interested in now is why AP has come clean even to the extent that they have. There's presumably something I'm missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like theres only a few things that could have caused APs admission of there actually being a superuser account. Three that I can think of, i'll put them in order of likelyhood to me:

1. The Digg article that made the first page and the 2 or 3 MSNBC articles. These are relatively signifigant news sources and could have caused some panic at AP. They were somewhat unbiased but certainly leaned towards guilt at AP. I don't really think enough new info has come foward to warrant any new articles.

2. Their income took what they viewed as a signifigant dive. The only real info we can gather on this is from that site that reports the number of players. Obviously this does not give us exact rake intake numbers due to micro limits etc.

3. Some people have stated that the posting of that wedding album caused the response from AP. I dont really know anything about that.

Other people have theorized that many players are going to keep their rolls on the site and play until its gone. Also we may be overestimating the speed at which word travels to most poker players. I'm going to the B&M next weekend, it will be interesting to see what is known there. I know I was at some .50-1 tables at Cake yesterday and at least 3 of the 10 or 11 that i was at over the session had some player mention something about it. I didn't start the chat in anyway but that was certainly encouraging.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
My own assessment of some questions were as follows:

Was the KGC set up by Joe Norton? No, it was the Mohawk Warrior Society and done by assistance of a lawyer. Frank Cantania is his name.

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Joe Norton was Chief of the tribe when the tribe decided to start the KGC, and hired Frank Cantania. The tribe council chooses board members. It's reasonable to infer that Joe approved the decision to setup the KGC, hire Frank Cantania, and was a founding board member. This link describes how active Joe was in 2004and the fact he was on the board of Mohawk Interactive Technologies (MIT their web hosting business - more on that later).

In 2004 Joe retired, three years later he announces he is owner of a multi-hundred million dollar Poker site licensed by the KGC.

[ QUOTE ]
(Frank) is now eCOGRA board member and has written the following report on his Kahnawake engagement. I think it would be interessting to figure why the KGC Gaming Regulations have been altered during the last couple of days.

Is the KGC a trustworthy organization? Up to now, it was considered as a joke ("a rubber stamp" or "fraud") and this link is already stickied in the Zoo FAQ - What it all appears to mean. In order to get an unterstanding of the situation in Kahnawake I think one has be very careful and to know a lot. Perhaps this and this link lead to some additional background information but certainly not to a complete picture.


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When you read Frank Cantania's report, the problem is very apparent. The KGC charges only $10,000 per year, and works in concert with MIT, i.e. if you want a license, you have to pay MIT for hosting services. Licensing fees of only $10k per year can pay for no reasonable level of oversight. They can't pay for regular audits, full time personnel, etc. Essentially the KGC was created to manufacture "gaming licenses", to give poker companies incentive to host at MIT, which is where the Tribes real money is being made.

This also explains why the KGC hasn't undertaken any serious enforcement actions. They don't have the personnel, and they don't care to. They will never touch Absolutes "license" because Absolute is their customer and tribe needs their revenues.