Move up? Stay put?

[Hattifnatt]

if you are buying in full, wait til you have 13-15k before taking the 2/4 shot.

[getitfixed]

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if you are buying in full, wait til you have 13-15k before taking the 2/4 shot.

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That can't be good advice? You might be right if you think I need that much to play there as my B&B game. I'm curious how much of my bankroll people think I should use to "take a shot"? I like the idea of trying to game select and play 3 tables of 1/2 and 1 table of 2/4 to get my feet wet. Now the question is...how much should I be willing to invest in this?

[Flip-Flop]

OP, the questions you are asking can only be answered by you.

If playing with bigger amounts of money at the table makes you uncomfortable and you feel like you wont play your A-game then don`t move up.

If you are asking in a sense of minimizing RoR etc there are many threads on BR management that you can check out.

[2handed]

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Maybe just mix one 2/4 table into your usual 1/2 games until you win 5 or 6k more and can play full time there. Then when you have the roll you will feel alright stepping up since you have logged some hands at that level.

Try buying in for 300 at 2/4. It may help with getting psyched out, and the game really isnt radically different with 75bb from 100bbs. When you double that up in a game, don't rathole however, keep playing your game and try to have a few dominant sessions. Running 300 up past 1k a few times will help your confidence and your roll.

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When I have moved up in the past, I found that short-stacking (~20BB buy in) helps me get used to the size of the pots at the new level. You can also use this opportunity to scope out your competition, see how aggressive everyone is, get some pokertracker stats on players, etc. If you know what you are doing, you can make a decent profit at it too (although significantly less than a good player who has a full stack)

But don't shortstack too long. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I don't agree. I think buying in for under 40bb will not really ease the transition, rather its going to cause you to play a different style of poker than you used to beat 1/2. You need to take what you are doing at you current level and apply it to the new stake, not invent some new strategy just so you can play a game with bigger blinds.

You don't need to shortstack to get stats and reads on ppl, just datamine or open a table and watch.

[iggymcfly]

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if you are buying in full, wait til you have 13-15k before taking the 2/4 shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That can't be good advice? You might be right if you think I need that much to play there as my B&B game. I'm curious how much of my bankroll people think I should use to "take a shot"? I like the idea of trying to game select and play 3 tables of 1/2 and 1 table of 2/4 to get my feet wet. Now the question is...how much should I be willing to invest in this?

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If you really want to set a stop loss where you'd move down to make yourself feel more comfortable, 4K works. Gives you 10 BI at 2/4 and a pretty decent chance to make a profit.

Honestly though, you don't need this. If you're using good game selection, and you're still putting in more hands at 1/2 than you are at 2/4, then even if you were a losing player at 2/4, (which you wouldn't be), you'd still be making money.

I'd say keep playing one or two tables of 2/4 when you play until either you get comfortable enough to make it your main game or you get a significant sample of hands in at 2/4 (probably at least 10K) and find that you're not a winning player.

[OrrLives]

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When I have moved up in the past, I found that short-stacking (~20BB buy in) helps me get used to the size of the pots at the new level. You can also use this opportunity to scope out your competition, see how aggressive everyone is, get some pokertracker stats on players, etc. If you know what you are doing, you can make a decent profit at it too (although significantly less than a good player who has a full stack)

But don't shortstack too long. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. I think buying in for under 40bb will not really ease the transition, rather its going to cause you to play a different style of poker than you used to beat 1/2. You need to take what you are doing at you current level and apply it to the new stake, not invent some new strategy just so you can play a game with bigger blinds.

You don't need to shortstack to get stats and reads on ppl, just datamine or open a table and watch.

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To each his own. I was more speaking about getting over the bigger pot sizes. Obviously you wouldn't want to be short-stacking for a long time if you feel you are a good player.

When I started out at PLO, I played 0.05/0.10 and thought a $20 pot was huge. Even though I was crushing PLO10, every time I wanted to move up to PLO25 I chickened out because suddenly the pots were 2.5x bigger. My bankroll was more than adequate, but I couldn't get over that psychological hurdle.

Eventually I did move up (although it took me a lot longer than it should have) and crushed PLO25. But PLO50 looked REALLY imposing. There was no way I would feel comfortable with pots that now exceeded $100 even if my bankroll was $2000.

Then I read about short-stacker strategy in Slotbloom. I played full-ring PLO50 and PLO100, buying in for ~25BB each time. The 25BB buyin at PLO100 was the same as a full buyin at PLO25, so the money wasn't an issue. I made a small profit using short-stacker strategy (small sample size) but more importantly within one week I was comfortably playing at PLO50. Incredibly, the pot sizes were no longer a factor in my game since I had become used to seeing pots ~$50-$100.

[cmyr]

i'm skipping alot of the replies here and just saying that my general rule of thumb is not to take a shot at any game I don't have 25 buyins for, and to set a 5 buyin stoploss when playing out of my bankroll. This is by no means a kelly-perfect strategy, but I find the biggest difficulty in playing at a new (higher) level is a mental one, and to me it's more important that poker not cause me undue stress then it is that I utterly maximize my expectation.


I started this year playing 1-2 (for exactly two days) and moved up when my bankroll was at 10-11k, and I never had to move back down.


Some posters (rempel, for instance) have systems where they mix higher stakes games into their regular play. I don't like doing this, since if i'm playing 4 tables of say PLO100 and one table of PLO200, i'm going to be put on tilt far too easily by beats on the higher table. For me, the best strategy when moving up is to play only the higher level, but to play fewer tables and to really focus.

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm skipping alot of the replies here and just saying that my general rule of thumb is not to take a shot at any game I don't have 25 buyins for, and to set a 5 buyin stoploss when playing out of my bankroll. This is by no means a kelly-perfect strategy, but I find the biggest difficulty in playing at a new (higher) level is a mental one, and to me it's more important that poker not cause me undue stress then it is that I utterly maximize my expectation.


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Kelly is [censored] and def not optimal. Bankroll requirements are underestimated for sure.

And your bankroll nittiness is probably the greatest part of your game.

[pete fabrizio]

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i'm skipping alot of the replies here and just saying that my general rule of thumb is not to take a shot at any game I don't have 25 buyins for, and to set a 5 buyin stoploss when playing out of my bankroll. This is by no means a kelly-perfect strategy, but I find the biggest difficulty in playing at a new (higher) level is a mental one, and to me it's more important that poker not cause me undue stress then it is that I utterly maximize my expectation.


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Kelly is [censored] and def not optimal. Bankroll requirements are underestimated for sure.

And your bankroll nittiness is probably the greatest part of your game.

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taking a 5 buy-in shot when you have 25 buy-ins for the bigger game is not particularly nitty, and in fact is pretty close to Kelly-optimal these days.

[2handed]

Orrlives, I understand that you have made money shortstacking, but playing that strategy is not in the end really going to help you get being a successful higher limit player. Being 'comfortable' with bigger pots is really not a major psychological hurdle. Learning how to manage a big stack involves much more important skills, so I do not advocate shortstacking for under 50bbs to anyone looking to improve their overall game and become a significant winner at a higher limit.