Professional No-Limit Hold 'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[jeffnc]

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It actually feels like half a book.

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Without trying to sound like Captain Obvious Smartass, it is half a book.

[jeffnc]

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Mmmmmm, chicken.

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Yeah, I know. When I read the section in the book that went "If you're not very good at playing chicken...", I thought "yeah, that's me". I'm OK at it, getting better, but it's not my forte. It's one reason I'm not as good at shorthanded limit poker against aggressive players. I'll be using my nickel/dime weekly game to get better at stealing. There are a couple guys I can use the bet/float, check/steal line against. I need to get better at figuring out the wilder guys. Sometimes they lay down a hand with shocking ease to small bets. Other times they're like badgers even with bad draws. They make no sense. It's frustrating to get those 2 situations mixed up against them.

[jeffnc]

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He min raises UTG (we are 5 handed)... He likely has a top pair kind of hand, so an SPR of ~9 isn't really great for him,

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Right, so I'm wondering why you put him mostly on that range? Min raising in a 5 handed game has to mean something. Do you think he wants to play a smaller pot with a hand like AT or KQ? Minraising is an interesting play, and PNL opened my eyes to new reason to use it, but most players don't use it for those reasons.

[binions]

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Ciaffone's 5-10 rule example is that you have 98s on the button


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Is it? I've never read Ciaffone's book but the only time I've heard about the 5/10 rule was in respect to calling raises with a pocket pair being played for set value.

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If you haven't read PL & NL Poker, you ought to. It was an excellent cash game book in its time, and still is quite good.

And yes, they use 98s in a multiway pot to introduce their 5-10 rule at p. 65. Just because I disagree with their rule doesn't mean:

1) The rest of the book isn't good;
2) Your foes won't use the 5-10 rule anymore.

[1p0kerboy]

My book arrived in Jacksonville this morning; about an hour and a half from where I live.

GOgogogogo!

[Sunny Mehta]

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Matt,
You guys have been great about answering questions thus far; is there an appropriate place to post questions about concepts in the book (since this is the review thread)?

Since this is the only place I know of to post about the book, I'll go ahead and fire away- but if there is a better place please let me know.

This is a situation I was unsure about in my last session: it is low stakes FR on poker stars, but we are playing short handed. FR at this level tends to be full of set miners and weak/tight play, so often playing short handed at tables that are just getting started can be quite profitable. Villain in the hand hasn't really gotten involved too much so no real reads- I therefore assume he is an average FR player for this level. He is probably capable of playing "chicken" on the flop, but not much beyond. He has 74BBs and I have a covering stack.

He min raises UTG (we are 5 handed) and it is folded to me in the BB- I have 77. I was trying to decide between calling (SPR of 20.5) or min-raising (SPR 8.75). Obviously calling is profitable here, but given that this is a short handed game and villain tends to fold too much, I felt like I could get more value adding some fold equity to my hand by putting in a raise. He likely has a top pair kind of hand, so an SPR of ~9 isn't really great for him, and it's not bad for me- especially if I have some fold equity to my hand. However, I AM OOP and he can easily float me on the flop (players at this level are at least capable of that), so I think I'll likely have to fire two barrels to effectively use my fold equity. Also, while an SPR of 9 isn't great for his hand, it could be worse, so I don't know how much of an advantage I'm gaining by forcing him to play at that SPR rather than 20 (at which both of our hands will play fine).

So I guess my question is, does min raising here to put my opponent enough of an uncomfortable spot that it is worth doing OOP, or should I just call and play "make a hand" poker?

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Hi Jeff,

It's probably better to keep detailed strategy questions for one of the threads in the strategy forums, but, no big deal - just for next time.

As for your hand question, there isn't one correct answer in this case. But we can discuss a few possible "plans".

First off, the fact that he has position is generally going to mean that postflop stealing will favor him - not always, but generally. Secondly, I'm going to assume that because the game is 5-handed, his UTG raising range is a lot wider than it would be 10-handed. Point being, if you flat call purely for the plan of flopping a set (and check-folding if you don't), your implied odds are not going to be as good as they might appear. You are not going to get his stack everytime you flop a set, and if you are losing the pot everytime you don't flop a set, you are giving up a lot of equity.

So, that doesn't make flat-calling the wrong option, it just means that you should be able to win the pot some percentage of the time that you don't flop a set. For example, if your opponent won't c-bet every time, and you feel you can sometimes win the hand on the turn/river/showdown, that helps your equity. Or, if you plan on sometimes bluff-checkraising him on the flop, or stealing the hand on a later street, that gains you some equity (though that's a more expensive option).

Min-re-raising him is certainly an option - it gives you initiative, particularly on the flop. But a) it doesn't give you any fold equity preflop, and b) you said he's capable of floating you on the flop, so you might lose the pot postflop more than you'd like. Also, making any sort of reraise reopens the betting, which somewhat defeats the purpose if he's going to price you out with the hands that you actually have decent implied odds against.

If you're going to reopen the betting, a bigger reraise preflop should also be considered. True, you'll essentially be turning your hand into a bluff/semibluff, but in a 5-handed situation, the fold equity you gain from the play could make it worthwhile. A bigger reraise will not only make him fold his crappy hands that might otherwise sometimes steal the pot from you postflop, but might also make him fold hands that do have decent equity against you (overcards), and even sometimes make him fold better hands (e.g., you reraise and he calls with pocket nines, you c-bet an AJ3 flop and he folds).

In shorthanded situations, often SPR can be used more as a gauge for stealing than for committing. Without more information, it's difficult to say whether this is one of those situations, but I suspect it might be.

You guys are gonna love all the elaborating we'll do in Volume Two on all the core concepts we introduced in Volume One.

-S

[Jeff76]

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Right, so I'm wondering why you put him mostly on that range? Min raising in a 5 handed game has to mean something. Do you think he wants to play a smaller pot with a hand like AT or KQ?

[/ QUOTE ]Because overcards are more statistically likely than overpairs and I've found that people (at this level) tend to minraise with both types of hands. However, if he IS minraising with an overpair, often these players are poor enough to minraise again, which I will happily call knowing that I can make 12x my call (of 4BB) if I hit my bet.

If he 4bets more, though, then that would suck.

[Jeff76]

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It's probably better to keep detailed strategy questions for one of the threads in the strategy forums, but, no big deal - just for next time.

[/ QUOTE ]Fair enough- I just knew if I posted in FR, most of the posters would have no idea what SPR is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for your comments. It looks like there are a lot of available lines, which is what I suspected. I opted for the min-reraise just to try out a situation where I was playing a good SPR and denying my opponent a good one. My plan was to double barrel if it made sense against villain's hand range as the hand progressed.

I definitely am looking forward to Vol 2.

[Splossy]

Sorry it this isn't appropriate but looking at the book's subjects I'm interested to know what the book's teachings would say about this hand. I'm thinking of balancing commitment, protection and pot control.

He is a 44/9/1.6

0.25/0.50 (5 handed)

MP: ($59)
Button: ($59.95)
SB: ($50)
BBvillian): ($73.65)
Hero: ($42.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6s 6d. Hero posts a blind of $0.50. 2 folds, BB calls $0.25, Hero (poster) raises to $2.5, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.50) 3h 5s 4s
villian checks, Hero bets $4, villian calls $4.

Turn: ($12.50) 8h
villian checks, Hero bet's $9, Villain calls $9

River: ($30.50) T (3 players)
villian checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $30.50

How would the book/authors suggest balancing pot control with protection/value and is commitment an issue and if so at what stage and does it change?

[binions]

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0.25/0.50 (5 handed)

MP: ($59)
Button: ($59.95)
SB: ($50)
BBvillian): ($73.65)
Hero: ($42.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6s 6d. Hero posts a blind of $0.50. 2 folds, BB calls $0.25, Hero (poster) raises to $2.5, BB calls $1.50.

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Not the author, but this description of the preflop action makes no sense at all.