2/4 TT sucks...

MP and Bu unknown

MP limps, Bu raises, I 3bet with TT, both call

Flop: Js 8 5 rainbow I bet, MP folds, BU calls

Turn: 4s I bet, he raises, Hero calls??

Can I find a fold here... it smells like a value line but I´m getting 9-1 here...and none of the remaining Ts is a spade..

River: 9 he bets, I crying call

[aargh57]

I think this is fine. I'm assuming river 9 isn't a spade. Getting 9 to one I think that he's raising a draw here often enough that calling down is O.K. He could very well have something like As8s or AsQs. I think maybe it's close though because you'll almost always have to pay 2 bets so you've got to be good 1 in 6 times (although you'll occasionally improve to trips). I think it's a call down vs an unknown or an aggressive player and a fold if he's very passive.


ETA..

BTW, in the sticky you'll find some hand converters that will make life easier for you. You may make a few mistakes with them at first but once you get used to them they're great. I like the one at FTR

[jba]

kind of depends on the game you give us nothing on the reads. calling the turn raise and folding the river is a line I use against a bunch of guys.

generally though against unknowns in a relatively honest game your line is burning money

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
kind of depends on the game you give us nothing on the reads. calling the turn raise and folding the river is a line I use against a bunch of guys.



[/ QUOTE ]

jba,

I don't get this. I would think out of the lines we could take we should either fold the turn or call down. I know that sometimes he'll check an UI J hand or FD but don't you think that he'll c-bet with these hands to often to call only to fold to another bet. I may be wrong saying to call down vs an unknown but I'd rather fold the turn than give him one more bet if I'm planning on folding the river anyway.

yeah 9 is no spade,

@jba, yeah but i guess, he will fire most rivers with any kind of busted draws, so i either have to fold to the raise immediately or planning to only call any river <T and any non-spade

@ arrgh: i usually use the converter, but i´m currently playin at Titan Poker and i havent yet found a compatible converter

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kind of depends on the game you give us nothing on the reads. calling the turn raise and folding the river is a line I use against a bunch of guys.



[/ QUOTE ]

jba,

I don't get this. I would think out of the lines we could take we should either fold the turn or call down. I know that sometimes he'll check an UI J hand or FD but don't you think that he'll c-bet with these hands to often to call only to fold to another bet. I may be wrong saying to call down vs an unknown but I'd rather fold the turn than give him one more bet if I'm planning on folding the river anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

well first of all the pot is 9+ bets and have 2 outs almost all of the time, i know it's not a lot but it is some equity in what is now a big pot. and now consider that because the pot is big, if he can get us to fold a better hand than his we are giving up a TON of value. so if he's fsd raising with A8/A5/77/66/ Asxs even a very small percentage of the time we are getting good enough odds to call the turn and fold the river ui. there are not a ton of legit hands that he can be playing this way so it's not like his range is huge and his fsd range is a drop in the bucket, so there are definitely plenty of people I would take this line against.

all that said i would generally need to know that my opp is playing this way before I did this.

[yourface]

vs an unknown I would call down here with the flush draw becoming possible on the turn

maybe this is a mistake though, this spot sucks vs an unknown. I have seen enough stupid [censored] from unknowns playing lhe but that may be my selective memory, we need to be correct 20%+ of the time to call down

[WhiteWolf]

When we 3-bet preflop, there's going to be enough money in the pot that we should almost always be seeing a showdown with our hand. Since our friend in MP generously chipped in another 3 small bets preflop, I think that is even more true here.

[Oink]

Folding to the turn raise against unknowns in most 2/4 games is correct. Note that the players advocating a call down plays 5/10 and higher. Against an unknown +5/10 player I think its a call down. At lower stakes you can be a winning player even if you never call these turn raises.

Oh, and I def dont like jba's call turn fold river line unless I know for sure that villain likes to free showdown raise.

[bboy_]

against an unknown i would see calling down. against a decent player i think we can call turn and c/f river since he could be raising with a worse hand but never value betting a worse one on the river.