Some Stuff About PUA (very long)

[MaxPower]

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Sigh.

This isn't about me. I don't want this thread to be about me and my [censored]. I'm just using myself as a representative example of one of two basic perspectives on a debate.

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You are creating two basic perspectives, but both perspectives are in your head. You are setting these two perspectives against each other in a false way. In that sense it is about you, because these perspectives are in your head and are not based in reality.

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I agree! Oversimplification for the purposes of advancing an argument is super-standard. I think the two ragged camps I've chosen are semi-valid but there's obviously going to be a pretty wide range of opinion.

What do you mean 'setting them against each other in a false way?' Only insofar as they're always set against each other in a false way; I mean, read any other thread on PUA and that's exactly what we end up with - two mutually hostile viewpoints riddled with fallacies that don't get us anywhere. But they both in their way make strong cases, and that's what really interests me - the debate between success and virtue, and the fallacies of both, and the artificial division of the whole thing, and also the REAL divisions that aren't easily reconciled.

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I think it is very possible to be both successful with women and virtuous. I think this is easily reconciled. Each person needs to define for himself what is means to be successful and what it means to be virtuous.

[Anacardo]

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I think it is very possible to be both successful with women and virtuous.

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Dude from where I'm sitting the overlap of that particular Venn diagram is very very thin, certainly for guys under 25. I can think of a few of my [censored] who are / were both players and stand-up guys. A couple of those were seriously on the fence about the righteousness of their pimpery.

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Each person needs to define for himself what is means to be successful and what it means to be virtuous.

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A theologist would probably say you can't / shouldn't, in the larger sense.