How to play small PP when raised PF

[Brettster]

This never feels right when I get raised preflop 3x. Usually I'll fold if they raise more than 3x. It always feels like a total spew when I dont hit my set and I call their c-bet and fold the turn.

1. My question is, if stacks are full 100bb's, is it standard to call the raise here preflop?

2. If OOP or in position against a TAG, do you ever fold to the raise?

3. How do you play the small PP against a TAG, Unknown, and LAG when the board is all low cards OOP and In position.

4. How do you play the same hand as above, but with a semi wet board, like K43 Rainbow against a TAG, Unknown, and LAG?

Here's an example of what never feels right to me against this unknown.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $49.25
UTG+1: $84.65
CO: $29.25
Button: $49.25
SB: $41.65
BB: $74.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($12.25, 2 players)
BB bets $10</font>, Hero Folds.

Or this makes me want to vomit


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $49.25
UTG+1: $84.65
CO: $29.25
Button: $49.25
SB: $41.65
BB: $74.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($12.25, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $10</font>, BB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($32.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $15</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $15 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: $32.25

[carnivalhobo]

use the 5/10 rule when deciding to call you need to be getting around 8:1 implied odds if you are playing for set value only, and this means that you dont think villain is 3betting you light very often.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
use the 5/10 rule when deciding to call you need to be getting around 8:1 implied odds if you are playing for set value only, and this means that you dont think villain is 3betting you light very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you need quite a bit more than 8:1 implied odds. Your odds of hitting a set on the flop are about 8:1. If you only get 8:1 implied odds it means you have to stack your opponent every single time you hit a set to break even. You aren't going to stack your opponent every time.

Harrington suggests about 20-1 implied odds to call for set value alone. (This corresponds to the 5% in the 5-10 rule.) With a $4 re-raise, you have to be pretty sure villain is going to give you his stack to call with a small PP, especially OOP where it will be harder to extract. Unless stacks are deeper than 100BBs or opponent is wild aggro with TP/overpair, I don't think it is going to be worth it.

[Kyriefurro]

[ QUOTE ]
Harrington suggests about 20-1 implied odds to call for set value alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember, Harrington is discussing tournament situations, where you don't have the option of reloading and you want to be really careful when committing even a small number of chips.

In ring games, you can be a much less cautious. There's been some discussion about this before, and, if I remember correctly, the general consensus was that 10:1 was generally acceptable when calling ONLY for set value. You can even get away with less than that if you think there's a strong chance that villain is FOS or will fold to further aggression from you.

[jively]

A couple of thoughts.

1) You don't have to raise 4x the BB with your small pocket pair. Maybe raise 2x or 2.5x. This will still give you a better shot at winning the stack, and may mean that their re-raise will not be as much, maybe making you closer to the 10% rule.

2) You mentioned calling the flop CB. (In your 2 examples you folded.) I don't think calling the flop CB to be a great strategy. True, you might still have the best hand, but it's expensive to find out, especially if out of position, and it's now 22 to 1 to hit on the turn.

-Tom

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
1) You don't have to raise 4x the BB with your small pocket pair. Maybe raise 2x or 2.5x. This will still give you a better shot at winning the stack, and may mean that their re-raise will not be as much, maybe making you closer to the 10% rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't change the size of your raises based on your hand! People with any knowledge will pick up on this.

[Gelford]

For crying out loud, if your reading skills are such, that you can't rely on them in these situations, then play strictly for setvalue and drop em if you do not connect.

It might not be optimal, but should still show a profit ... and beats spewing everytime you miss your set.


No set, no bet ! (There is no shame in setmining) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I also use the 5-10 rule when calling pf raises with small pp, and they are most profitable. On flop mostly no set no bet. Also, I raise them first in 6-max tables any position.

[RAHZero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) You don't have to raise 4x the BB with your small pocket pair. Maybe raise 2x or 2.5x. This will still give you a better shot at winning the stack, and may mean that their re-raise will not be as much, maybe making you closer to the 10% rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't change the size of your raises based on your hand! People with any knowledge will pick up on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is discussed at length in NLHE:T&amp;P. Changing up your PF raises based on numerous factors is not only fine, but it's better than making a standard PFR every single time. One of the factors you should consider is your hand. Read pages 111-112.

[EMc]

my thoughts...

I open raise any PP from any position. Ill raise 1 limper usually too.

If im calling a raise or a re-raise, I ask myself if I stand to make 10x the current bet. If im rrzed 4 more, can i make 40 on the hand? If the answer is yes i usually call for set value.