More on live poker etiquette

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
it has become so common place that players actually now believe its acceptable conduct.


[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. The b&m's might as well throw out the sections of their rule books that deal w/ player etiquette and expected behavior. I brought this up w/ a floor person a year ago. She was sitting at a table w/ a few dealers waiting to begin their shift. They all acknowledged the problem but told me that it was 'no use', the problem was SO widespread that there was practically nothing they could do about it.

In order to try to bring player behavior universally into compliance with the rule books the b&m rooms would have to come down on the players like a ton of brick. That isn't going to happen so I've adapted.

[bucktotal]

since i have only played a handful of times live, and its all been 1/2 (where all rules technical/etiquette wise are broken), i have tried to take the approach where i will let virtually anything go, as long as I am not in the hand or it does not effect the whole table.

i think its much easier to just let people play out their hands as they wish. If i think someone is being taken advantage of, i would like to think that i would say something.

but there is so much talking and wispering at these tables, i just dont want to be THAT guy complaining all the time.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it has become so common place that players actually now believe its acceptable conduct.


[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. The b&m's might as well throw out the sections of their rule books that deal w/ player etiquette and expected behavior. I brought this up w/ a floor person a year ago. She was sitting at a table w/ a few dealers waiting to begin their shift. They all acknowledged the problem but told me that it was 'no use', the problem was SO widespread that there was practically nothing they could do about it.

In order to try to bring player behavior universally into compliance with the rule books the b&m rooms would have to come down on the players like a ton of brick. That isn't going to happen so I've adapted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they don't need to come down on them like a ton of bricks.he fact of the matter is that if the floor people would just have the resolve to gently enforce the rules they could do so. But when the floor just laughs something off, it makes it impssible for the dealers, and understandable when the dealers stop making the effort.

It is possibel to bring players back in line without being a ton of bricks. But it takes the willpower of management to address these issues and yes some players may have to be pushed hard, but not all of them.

[fishyak]

Caveats and warnings:

1) I am not AN old timer. Playing less than 3 yrs.
2) I play LOW stakes, FOR FUN and a little $.

I read through this post and the replies and wondered if everyone followed all these instructions to STFUB, a) would you be right by the rules, and b) would you suck all the life out of the table and the game? Yes and yes?

Old Chinese proverb: "Fastest horse cannot overtake word of mouth, once spoken."

So I think it will be hard to get everyone to be quiet when an interesting card hits the board. I do have one suggestion that I feel would limit these problems. IMO, dealers do not regularly enforce the rules at showdown of who shows and in what order, except for when there are sidepots. There they say: "sidepot shows first." But even then do not indicate who should go first within that sidepot.

Rather than the punch in the face escalation, if asked what you had simply state, "$6 first, please. (If you were playing 3/6, for example.) As to the offhand comment by the non-participant. I would make a polite comment to the offender to please make their remarks generic to not influence the game.

If a difficult card hits the board I've been known to look at the dealer and say: "Oh, you troublemaker, you." On some quick folds I say PF: "Put these cards back on the kiddie menu, or can I take these cards to the blackjack table, double 'em down and them bring em back?" I try to have fun without being so specific but an argument can be made that even these statements could inappropriately influence the balance of play in the hand.

So if someone does step out of boards, start with a polite request to reform the behavior. Bu let's try not to take it so far so that the fish take the game too seriously, or you get known as Mr. Serious Buzz Killer if you are in the hand.

And get dealers to enforce the show order by refusing to show our hands out of order. And then, if we show first and are lucky enough to win, it is OK to remind ourselves to STFUB and NOT ask what our opponents had.

There, I've taken the high road for possibly the only time today.

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it has become so common place that players actually now believe its acceptable conduct.


[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. The b&m's might as well throw out the sections of their rule books that deal w/ player etiquette and expected behavior. I brought this up w/ a floor person a year ago. She was sitting at a table w/ a few dealers waiting to begin their shift. They all acknowledged the problem but told me that it was 'no use', the problem was SO widespread that there was practically nothing they could do about it.

In order to try to bring player behavior universally into compliance with the rule books the b&m rooms would have to come down on the players like a ton of brick. That isn't going to happen so I've adapted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they don't need to come down on them like a ton of bricks.he fact of the matter is that if the floor people would just have the resolve to gently enforce the rules they could do so. But when the floor just laughs something off, it makes it impssible for the dealers, and understandable when the dealers stop making the effort.

It is possibel to bring players back in line without being a ton of bricks. But it takes the willpower of management to address these issues and yes some players may have to be pushed hard, but not all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

In last night's game the dealers would've had to say something to at least 3/4 of the players on every hand and explain why. Every hand had some objectionable conduct. This would slow down the game which would affect the house drop and his tips and 'bothering' the players would REALLY affect his tips. When you consider further that hardly any of the players in the games object to what to me and you is horribly inappropriate behavior why should they bother?

I've thought about this issue a bit. I've fantasized that the rooms I play in would print up a special etiquette flyer and spend a month or two actually handing them out to the seated players and making repeated announcements over the PA saying that players are expected to play by the rules.

But, suppose, for example, that the Bike decided they were going to 'ruin' the players fun? I'd guess that Hollywood Park, Commerce, Hustler and Hawaiin Gardens would be glad.

[psandman]

I really believe there is a middle ground here between ruining the players fun and letting them do whatever they want.

In fact most problems occur when the dealers/floor allow players to whatever they want and along comes a player who is upset by this. Now a an argument breaks out -- that isn't good for the game. thats not good for the house drop, thats not good for the dealers tokes.

I don't disagree with the notion that being unyielding rule nazis is not the answer. I just disagree with the notion that there is no reasonable way to bring this somewhat under control.

[bav]

Sounds like the folks at CAZ have let the players run the games for so long now they see no hope in ever regaining control. Players can have plenty of fun and have all the conversations they want once the hand is over. When there's money still to be bet, STFU. It's really not that hard, and if management had kept it under control in the first place it wouldn't be such an issue now. Dealers and floors apparently got lazy over yonder.

I don't see games running like this in Vegas very often. The dealers and the floors usually tell folks to STFU when it's appropriate, and if they fail to a player usually steps in (sometimes politely, sometimes not--Last such player correction ran something like "thank you so much for analyzing this board and the play so far for this gentleman over there who's still in; I'm sure he appreciated your thoughtful commentary and you filled in any holes in his knowledge" and the guy who'd been running his mouth turned red and insta-apologized). It's not a big deal. But if places like CAZ are letting this go, I understand why visitors to Vegas are getting their hands slapped from time to time. Nip it in the bud.

"Nip it! Nip it! Nip it!" --Barney Fife

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
I really believe there is a middle ground here between ruining the players fun and letting them do whatever they want.

In fact most problems occur when the dealers/floor allow players to whatever they want and along comes a player who is upset by this. Now a an argument breaks out -- that isn't good for the game. thats not good for the house drop, thats not good for the dealers tokes.

I don't disagree with the notion that being unyielding rule nazis is not the answer. I just disagree with the notion that there is no reasonable way to bring this somewhat under control.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree w/ you completely, if that's worth anything. But it's not happening. Maybe in small rooms somewhere where the player pool is smaller and the floor/dealers have the time and relationships w/ the players but in the big rooms that are full of strangers it's something that I think most poker rooms have given up on.

[Phntm]

CAZ is its own entity. One of a kind, everyone needs to come out and experience for themselves at least once in their lives. There are some shady characters(not too mention, infinte rule and ettiquite violations) for sure but the amount of absolute loose(almost mindless) action is IMHO unmatched anywhere.