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#131
11-17-2007, 01:55 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] "agents" isn't a distinct moral category is someone morally justified to use force if someone comes onto their property to kidnap them with a deadly weapon that they intend to use if that person attempts to run away? If I came into your home and attempted to do so to you would you be morally justified using force against me? It can't be right for one and wrong for the other. 
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#132
11-17-2007, 01:57 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office.
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#133
11-17-2007, 01:59 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office. [/ QUOTE ] No you can't. But how about stealing your possessions and kidnapping you?
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#134
11-17-2007, 02:04 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office. [/ QUOTE ] No you can't. But how about stealing your possessions and kidnapping you? [/ QUOTE ] Again, now we're back to square one, which is people who cannot see the difference in "Search and Seizure" and "Stealing your possessions" who've now also added the fact that they don't know the difference between "legal arrest" and "kidnapping". You're now officially beyond help.
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#135
11-17-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office. [/ QUOTE ] No you can't. But how about stealing your possessions and kidnapping you? [/ QUOTE ] Again, now we're back to square one, which is people who cannot see the difference in "Search and Seizure" and "Stealing your possessions" who've now also added the fact that they don't know the difference between "legal arrest" and "kidnapping". You're now officially beyond help. [/ QUOTE ] Who do the possessions belong to? Who has control over them now? What violence did the liberty people initiate? Are they where they are now against their will or not?
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#136
11-17-2007, 02:12 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
Another question would it have been morally acceptable for me personally to hire some people off the street to go and do exactly what those agents did?
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#137
11-17-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office. [/ QUOTE ] No you can't. But how about stealing your possessions and kidnapping you? [/ QUOTE ] Again, now we're back to square one, which is people who cannot see the difference in "Search and Seizure" and "Stealing your possessions" who've now also added the fact that they don't know the difference between "legal arrest" and "kidnapping". You're now officially beyond help. [/ QUOTE ] Who do the possessions belong to? Who has control over them now? What violence did the liberty people initiate? Are they where they are now against their will or not? [/ QUOTE ] Fine, fight the courts, as they have control over the stuff. Where they are now is not information available to me, as none of them are presently incarcerated, and they're all at home or wherever they choose to be.
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#138
11-17-2007, 02:14 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
Another question would it have been morally acceptable for me personally to hire some people off the street to go and do exactly what those agents did? [/ QUOTE ] Sure, people hire private agents to do seizure all the time, it's called repossession. As long as it's legally done, I have no issue.
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#139
11-17-2007, 02:15 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are people here who actually believe police action of any kind = ZOMG! Nazis! [/ QUOTE ] Indeed,where their reasoning leads to is the conclusion that the Liberty Dollar folks would have been :morally" justified in using force -- including deadly force -- against the agents. [/ QUOTE ] I would absolutely agree if I saw where anyone from the Liberty Dollar camp was held at gunpoint. You cannot, contrary to the beliefs of the ACist, shoot someone for the "forceful" act of walking into your office. [/ QUOTE ] No you can't. But how about stealing your possessions and kidnapping you? [/ QUOTE ] Again, now we're back to square one, which is people who cannot see the difference in "Search and Seizure" and "Stealing your possessions" who've now also added the fact that they don't know the difference between "legal arrest" and "kidnapping". You're now officially beyond help. [/ QUOTE ] Who do the possessions belong to? Who has control over them now? What violence did the liberty people initiate? Are they where they are now against their will or not? [/ QUOTE ] Fine, fight the courts, as they have control over the stuff. [/ QUOTE ] We're talking morality not practicality. Is it right for the courts to have control over that stuff?
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#140
11-17-2007, 02:26 PM
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Re: Liberty Dollar office raided
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just to make my position clear, this sort of "just doing their jobs" bull [censored] justifies anything evil. If "just doing your job" justifies breaking into private property with guns drawn and confiscating the private property of people for the incredible offense of stamping little bits of metal into circles, then it justifies breaking into private property with guns drawn and violating anyone's rights for any reason at all. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that the search warrant itself was wrong, but I believe you're incredibly ill informed if you believe every law enforcement officer is in total agreement over every search warrant they serve, and I also believe you're full of [censored] if you're going to tell me you would work for many years to make it to the top of your given career's ladder, then defiantly quit your job because you were told to perform a routine task that you didn't agree with. You can't honestly expect anyone to buy that idealistic bull [censored]. I just don't see it happening. [/ QUOTE ] ROFLMAO. Funniest post of the decade. Imagine borodog doing something he disagreed with.
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