Indiana sucks--- harrah's/caesars

[steamboatin]

I haven't played at Belterra since Argosy opened. Argosy has a nice room and the games are good. The guys running it are from the Goldstrike in Tunica, Roger and Terry.

[Rootabager]

I agree they are [censored] at Caesars, but that is weird they would not let you switch games. I have done this several times.

We switched our 1/2 omaha game to HOE during the last circuit event.

There is usually a few full games during the week. At night it's more crowded than you would expect.

1/2 nl killed off the 10/20 I hear. But it still goes on the weekends always.

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played at Belterra since Argosy opened. Argosy has a nice room and the games are good. The guys running it are from the Goldstrike in Tunica, Roger and Terry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the last time I was in Cincy when my house finally sold after a year of being on the market, my son and his wife took me down there to the Argosy.

My son tends to play like a maniac, so neither myself nor his wife wanted to be seated at the same table as he was. So, he sat down at one table, and I at another.

Of course I got seated next to the drunk guy (lucky for me, he was on my right), but managed to take all the guys chips, after being patient and waiting for hands to take his bankroll from him.

My son's wife sat down at the same table as me after the drunk guy reloaded (she's just learning poker, so she tends to be a bit of a calling station, and the drunk guy failed to realize that (even though she kept telling them she was new to poker) and tried to bluff her all the time), and managed to take his reload. A few times as we played, the drunk guy made some nasty comments about women in poker pointed at both me and my son's wife, and at one time, my son's wife had to say something to my son, to keep my son from leaving his table, coming over to ours, and going postal on the guy.

Overall, I liked the Argosy, and wished the poker room had been in place when I lived there (it opened up about 3 to 6 months I think, after I moved to Denver, after over a year of promises of getting a poker room (because it's customers were going in droves over to Belterra to play both poker and the slots)).

[steamboatin]

There you go, the poker room manager just invited you to stop by and talk. How many times has that happened in recent history? Jimmy really cares about the players and is doing his best to make Caesar's IN the best it can be.

You guys have to remember, it is a Harrah's property and he is limited in what he can do.

[Rootabager]

This whole thread is retarded. Hour long waits are so rare. I have been playing there frequently for 3 years and have never waited longer than like 15 minutes, but I am willing to play first game that opens then switch when the game I want is called.

They dont do time + rake. Just 6$/30 minutes.

2-4-4-8 is easy to beat if you are not brain dead.

1-2 is beatable if you are not brain dead.

The comps do suck. I would not even bitch about 75 cents an hour if it didnt use to be one dollar an hour. Lowering it is terrible. Plus I had like 70 dollars on my comp balance and when they switched systems they told me too bad it gets erased.

[coolhandkuhn]

Steamboatin, please quit posting. Thank you.

[DCWildcat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
only no limit games they run are 1/2 NL $300 max and 2/5 $1k max.

They have all these damn limit games running all the time so the wait is 1-2 hours every time.

Poker is new to the region and old people are slow learners because of the small amounts of hands live play allows, i mean i seen as many hands in a months as some guys do in a year live.

Anyway to offer a different game structure? wait is 1-2 hours every time



[/ QUOTE ]

This post is wrong on so many levels I am not even going to try. They will spread any game that will fill a table. If you want something different, start a list.

The $2-5 NL was previously uncapped and died. They recently capped the buyin at $1,000 and the game is beginning to make a come back.

If you think the poker at Caesar's IN sucks, you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country has available.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, Caesar's IN sucks pretty bad, but only recently.

My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...

2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear.

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.

4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.

In general, though, the brushes are more competent than you'll generally find in So. Indy (esp. Argosy), the dealers are much more competent than you'll find (Argosy, Belterra), and the game selection is unbeatable. I've seen some casinos in the US, and I can't blame Caesars for the changes they've made (they really suck the money out of everyone, fish and good player alike), but they're very suboptimal, particularly of late.

[steamboatin]

My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...
It is good business to charge the maximum the market will bear.

2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear. this paragraph doesn't make any sense. I think skilled players understand how to play but that game isn't designed for skilled players, it is for loose ass donkeys that like to play every hand.

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.

4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.
I haven't waited more than an hour in a really long time other than when the WSOP Circuit events are in town, of course.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.
Ameristar in St Charles MO used to be 50 cents an hour. I don't know the current comp rate.

[DCWildcat]

[ QUOTE ]
My main problems

1) Every game is being whored to max out the rake. Huge time charges + rake at NL, full kill or strange structures at NL games. Obviously this is immediately disadvantageous to a good player (more rake obviously = bad), but the weird structures they keep on inserting often lead to...
It is good business to charge the maximum the market will bear.

[/ QUOTE ]

No [censored] it's good for business. And bad for players. You do realize you just tried to counterargue the the premise "Higher rake is bad for players," don't you?

[ QUOTE ]


2) Games necessitating strategic changes that are unclear to skilled players. For example, Caesar's dropped 2/4 in favor of 2/4-4/8 ($2 increments PF, $4 on flop & turn, $8 on river). While it's clear that this requires loose PF play, tighter flop play, looser turn play, etc., specific plays and strategies are unclear. this paragraph doesn't make any sense. I think skilled players understand how to play but that game isn't designed for skilled players, it is for loose ass donkeys that like to play every hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been). Even for the players who are intelligent enough to reason out and calculate some strategic changes, there's no empirical data to verify them, making their long-term use risky.

[ QUOTE ]

3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent



4) Wait times do suck. Yes, calling ahead is nice...when you don't get bumped off the list b/c of random sporadic I-64 or I-71 traffic, which happens all the time. Showing up in person, 1 hour waits are not uncommon at the lower limits.
I haven't waited more than an hour in a really long time other than when the WSOP Circuit events are in town, of course.

5) Comps suck. If the occasional casino-provided free meal makes a significant difference in your bank account, you're [censored] here. Caesar's offers the worst comps of any casino in the US.
Ameristar in St Charles MO used to be 50 cents an hour. I don't know the current comp rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your last two comments are valid. Calling ahead is still nice though long waits are still somewhat common. There are casinos with worse comping than Caesars, but they're very few, and aren't in Southern Indiana.

Even with all of that considered, it's still usually your best bet due to the game selection.

[steamboatin]

How does it not make sense? Maybe re-read it. What is this stuff about who the game is designed for? Who cares? Again, these hybrid games require strategic changes for good players. Those changes aren't known right now (haven't been written about or discussed in any significant detail, as "normal" games have been).
better read a few more poker books, strategy for no foldem holdem has not only been written about, it has been well covered



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3) 1/2NL is almost unbeatable. $6 time charge every half hour + rake is absurd.
I think this is player dependant.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I don't. At those tables with sloppy, inexperienced players, you're lucky to see 25 hands/hour. With a $6/half hour time charge, it costs $48 to see 100 hands at 1/2, so you need to clear 12PTBB/100 to win in the long run. If you factor out the 2PTBB/100ish average 1/2NL rake, it's still not beatable. Add in a fraction of the $1/hand BBJ rake and it's unbeatable (a fraction because there is, of course, some chance you'll win the BBJ...but it's still -EV, though variable on how much $ is in the pot). I don't think it's player dependent
LOL, I guess I need to translate, if you can't beat the rake against those loose ass donkeys, you suck at No Limit.