AK action flop.

[aceswild83]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $1620
CO: $594
Button: $354.50
SB: $999.40
BB: $234

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $21</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($66, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero

finally hit a pair but i'm not that excited. what's the best plan here? standard cbet or just check and see what happens?

[boondockst]

Standard c-bet. Pop the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] out on the turn if he calls.

[sillyarms]

I like a cbet too. More interesting is the plan for the turn and river.

Pretend button calls the cbet.

Turn is a blank. What's your action?

Turn is heart?

Turn is a Q?

Turn is a 9?

Turn is Ace?

[boondockst]

I was going to reply but this hand is just too ugly to talk about and it hasnt even gotten ugly yet. I open-fold any nonblank turn.

<font color="white"> JOPKE </font>

[Nicok7]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a cbet too. More interesting is the plan for the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, right now you gotta find out where you're at and if you get just called you have plenty of outs. Althouh if you get raised you might get pushed away when you would really like to see the turn. So I wouldn't cbet a big amount, maybe 2/3rd of the pot

[boondockst]

I dont know if I agree with "like to see the turn" if you're raised. If villain is tricky enough with his flop raising range, a heart, king and obviously ace while improving your hand [can] create further ulcers. I'd probably c-bet at the upper end of the acceptable range and puss out if called and especially if the turn is stupid.

[sillyarms]

[ QUOTE ]
if you get just called you have plenty of outs

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. I don't think we have plenty of outs here.

There are 3 tens I'd like to see. Even if the T does hit there are not alot of hands that are going to pay off the obvious straight.

A heart kind of sucks unless it slows down a set(allowing me to runner runner suck out).

A king kind of sucks as I can't think of anything that I'm ahead of besides KT(which is unlikely given pf actoin) that I will be ahead of enough get paid and be ahead at the same time.

A blank kind of sucks because there is a reasonable chance I'm already behind.

Basically, if we get called this spot kind of sucks.

[Nicok7]

Ok let me rephrase, the turn might be a good card for us and you wouldn't mind seing it (it's difficult to know where you are no matter what the next card is but a few cards likely help us although we might now know wich ones).

So if you continuation bet, and get raised, you basically have to fold.

Having said IMO a continuation bet seems way superior to the free card, since we don't know what we are looking for, so I was just making a silly point

[shootaa]

cbet, bet the turn again if no draw hits (get paid by fds and oesds w/ a pair) and then check on the rivr, even if its a blank, since the only hand u beat that could possibly pay you off is something like KT.

[aceswild83]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $1620
CO: $594
Button: $354.50
SB: $999.40
BB: $234

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $21</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($66, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $70</font>, BB folds, Hero

Forgot to give reads. BTN is pretty tight pf. few rounds ago he cold called QQ pf. My range on him was QJ+,KT+,JTs,AT+,22+. BB is pretty loose-passive.

I actually decided to check here. a lot of BTNs range hit that flop hard and I'm not sure if I want to put any more money in before I have some idea where I stand.

Here is basically what I was thinking.

1. if he has 22-99 he will fold if I bet and check behind if checked to and he only has 2 outs.

2. If he has AQ or AJ he only has 3 outs to win. If I bet I'm not sure if he will call or fold. If I check I think he will check behind and possibly call a bet on the turn.

3. If he has AT,KQ,KJ,QJ,JJ+ then obv checking is the best play. i believe he would bet all these hands if checked to although he migh sometimes decide to slowplay AT.

4. If he has KT,JT,TT then I should bet to charge his draw.
If I check to him I think he will bet most ofthe time but sometimes check behind.

so if he has a hand in group 1 or 2 he is drawing very thin so I can basically ignore those hands since checking and betting are close in value.

If he has a hand in group 3 or 4 then i'm a 60:40 dog so it seems checking is the best play.

I did totally ignore SB in my thinking though and I have about 50% equity against both players so betting can't be wrong. Another reason why I decided to check was that I thought BTN was capable of raising wih hands like KT, or JT etc but he was also capable of just calling with hands that had me beat. anyway I though when he bets he has a hand in group 3 or 4 so the check was basically to get some free info on his hand. is my thinking all wrong here?