$50NL Raising OCs and calling their shove for the pots odds

[avfletch]

OK. Even munging the hands to an extreme lots of draws + sets type range it's -EV. Are we really just folding to the donk bet? What range do you have for him when he leads out?

[avfletch]

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I fold. Keep in mind that he's betting into two people one of which is the preflop agressor.
I think it's way more likely that he'd check/raise or check/call a FD here.
Actually, I'd probably check/raise most hands in his shoes.
Naked bluffs, yeah
FD, yeah
Set, yeah

p.s.: You need to play with pokerstove more because you don't seem to understand the very basics of why poker is a good gamble

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Check raising with a flush draw here is a sucky line. If he b3bs it then he catches dead money when the man in the middle calls, I raise then he pushes.

If he check raises it then man in the middle doesn't commit any money when he has nothing and sometimes he'll appear with a real hand and mess up the semi-bluff.

Check calling suffers the same problem of not closing the betting and leaving man in the middle to mess up the plan.

I'm not convinced either is a good way to play any decent FD here and I'd credit villain for knowing it.

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This logic holds for a set as well. So, if you give him credit for doing this with a flush draw you should give him credit for doing it with a set. So, he either has a set or a flush draw and you are drawing dead or are slightly ahead.

Dumle

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Granted but there's a lot more FDs out there than sets.

[traz]

can you hurry up and get to the part where you post the results of a busted flush draw

[dnord]

Part of the reason to raise the flop is to get information. Unless you have a real solid read on the donk bettor, he told you everything you need to know: he's totally comfortable ending the hand here with whatever you've raised with twice.

Put another way, there's no math reason to call here. You'd have to make that decision outside of the pot-odds equation. Some players will do this with a naked draw, but not often enough that you want to stack off with ace-high.

That said, I think the flop raise is nice punch-in-the-mouth, and I see plenty of villains fold to it. If you get repunched, though... you gotta listen.

[avfletch]

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can you hurry up and get to the part where you post the results of a busted flush draw

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Lol. No it was a set of 2s. I got mushed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And hey, I already agreed it's bad!

[Dumle]

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I fold. Keep in mind that he's betting into two people one of which is the preflop agressor.
I think it's way more likely that he'd check/raise or check/call a FD here.
Actually, I'd probably check/raise most hands in his shoes.
Naked bluffs, yeah
FD, yeah
Set, yeah

p.s.: You need to play with pokerstove more because you don't seem to understand the very basics of why poker is a good gamble

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Check raising with a flush draw here is a sucky line. If he b3bs it then he catches dead money when the man in the middle calls, I raise then he pushes.

If he check raises it then man in the middle doesn't commit any money when he has nothing and sometimes he'll appear with a real hand and mess up the semi-bluff.

Check calling suffers the same problem of not closing the betting and leaving man in the middle to mess up the plan.

I'm not convinced either is a good way to play any decent FD here and I'd credit villain for knowing it.

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This logic holds for a set as well. So, if you give him credit for doing this with a flush draw you should give him credit for doing it with a set. So, he either has a set or a flush draw and you are drawing dead or are slightly ahead.

Dumle

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Granted but there's a lot more FDs out there than sets.

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There's actually not that many if he's solid, unless he thinks you are spewy (which I grant he might).

Dumle