$50NL Raising OCs and calling their shove for the pots odds

[bored]

TAG has pair+fd; gutshot+FD; a set, or a pair way more often than he does the NFD.

Try to avoid putting all your money in the pot when your hand is crushed by your opponents range.

[bored]

I fold to the donk bet.

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
TAG has pair+fd; gutshot+FD; a set, or a pair way more often than he does the NFD.

Try to avoid putting all your money in the pot when your hand is crushed by your opponents range.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. So how would you play the hand?

[clowntable]

I fold. Keep in mind that he's betting into two people one of which is the preflop agressor.
I think it's way more likely that he'd check/raise or check/call a FD here.
Actually, I'd probably check/raise most hands in his shoes.
Naked bluffs, yeah
FD, yeah
Set, yeah

p.s.: You need to play with pokerstove more because you don't seem to understand the very basics of why poker is a good gamble

[bored]

I'll elaborte on my previous post.

I fold to the donk bet.

I put Villain on a set; A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], a GS+FD; or a J.

We have A high and our only draw is to TPTK.

The A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] both complete a flush draw.

IF we hit an A or K on the turn that isn't a diamond, we are probably good, unless Villain was going for a b/3bAI on the flop with a set. However, we have a low chance of hitting a "good" A or K on the turn and if Villain still wants to put more money in even after we make TPTK, we are likely in trouble. We will not win much when we draw out with an A or a K, but Villain can punish us both when we hit an A/K and are beat and when we miss the turn.

We can only beat a bluff here and even semi-bluffs have good equity against us, so I fold. Going to showdown to show off A-high and/or trying to draw out is too costly to continue.

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold. Keep in mind that he's betting into two people one of which is the preflop agressor.
I think it's way more likely that he'd check/raise or check/call a FD here.
Actually, I'd probably check/raise most hands in his shoes.
Naked bluffs, yeah
FD, yeah
Set, yeah

p.s.: You need to play with pokerstove more because you don't seem to understand the very basics of why poker is a good gamble

[/ QUOTE ]

Check raising with a flush draw here is a sucky line. If he b3bs it then he catches dead money when the man in the middle calls, I raise then he pushes.

If he check raises it then man in the middle doesn't commit any money when he has nothing and sometimes he'll appear with a real hand and mess up the semi-bluff.

Check calling suffers the same problem of not closing the betting and leaving man in the middle to mess up the plan.

I'm not convinced either is a good way to play any decent FD here and I'd credit villain for knowing it.

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
I put Villain on a set; A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], a GS+FD; or a J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you excluding any other A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hand?

I'm still not sold on him having a J here. What half decent TAG gets all his money in with TP2K? Possibly AJ.

[Keitan]

I don't like this play at small stakes. Plays like this are necessary at higher stakes to mix it up/play optimally. Don't get me wrong mixing it up is also great at these stakes as far as cbetting/vbetting with a wide range, but this is overboard imo. Just fold to the $4?

[Dumle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold. Keep in mind that he's betting into two people one of which is the preflop agressor.
I think it's way more likely that he'd check/raise or check/call a FD here.
Actually, I'd probably check/raise most hands in his shoes.
Naked bluffs, yeah
FD, yeah
Set, yeah

p.s.: You need to play with pokerstove more because you don't seem to understand the very basics of why poker is a good gamble

[/ QUOTE ]

Check raising with a flush draw here is a sucky line. If he b3bs it then he catches dead money when the man in the middle calls, I raise then he pushes.

If he check raises it then man in the middle doesn't commit any money when he has nothing and sometimes he'll appear with a real hand and mess up the semi-bluff.

Check calling suffers the same problem of not closing the betting and leaving man in the middle to mess up the plan.

I'm not convinced either is a good way to play any decent FD here and I'd credit villain for knowing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This logic holds for a set as well. So, if you give him credit for doing this with a flush draw you should give him credit for doing it with a set. So, he either has a set or a flush draw and you are drawing dead or are slightly ahead.

Dumle

[Rollos]

lol even if he has the bottom of his range, which is Adxd, you're flipping. Fold to the donk bet.