Is it better just to get rid of this preflop?

[Black winter day]

3 times yesterday i had a similar situation at 2/5 gbp.

UTG or UTG+1 raises to 20 (a fairly aggro player,but not a maniac) and another good TAG player reraises to 65 on the button.

I had JJ twice in SB and once AKo in BB.

What line you usually take?

I folded in 2 cases and once reraised to 200.Problem is - i am now pretty much commited to call a push and i only invested 2 gbp preflop if i fold...

[JrJordan]

The AKo is an autofold for me especially because of first raiser's position. I'm much more likely to 4-bet if its a CO raise and Button 3bet. I'd fold JJ in this case as well, but be more likely to cold call instead of 4bet in the CO/BTN scenario.

[Black winter day]

Would it matter if it was AKs?

What do you do with JJ, if UTG calls as well and it's a ragged flop?
About 180 in the pot and button bets 140-150?

[JrJordan]

AKs is still a fold most times vs. these players/positions, but a few subtle changes could tip the scales.

Ragged flops aren't all equal in this case. In partiuclar, is it a 7xx board where my CRAI on a flop can get called by 88-TT or Txx where I'm only getting called by better hands?

Heads Up with Button:
On a 7xx flop: I CRAI without too much hesitation and expect to be called by 88/99 given he's getting over 3:1 at this point.

On a Txx flop: A bit tougher since I almost feel pot committed if I put any money in on the flop, but I'd really consider calling flop and check/folding to a turn push. This would be a more default play if the flop bet was closer to 100-120 (which seems to be the default flop bet in a 3bet situation more often than 140-150). Given the $150 bet it's a tossup between the c/c line described or CRAI.

Multiway: I wimp out when I get the chance. If it gets checked to Button on a ragged board and he still bets 140-150 I'm likely folding. Good TAG has to expect any overpair at that point to call at least one street multiway, so he's not bluffing overs or value betting smaller overpairs often enough for calling to be good.

[Jamougha]

This is too dependent on the individua players ranges for any comment to be that useful. Generally raise or fold tho, especially wih AK.

[Black winter day]

Great post!

[FireStorm]

Fold AK all day. JJ is a bit closer but you really can't be far wrong mucking in these spots.

[craig1120]

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Great post!

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Well it's the best post of the thread

[MATT111]

It depends on the specific players ranges. In general I`d much rather have AK than JJ in this spot and am rather confused that others like JJ more.

[Black winter day]

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It depends on the specific players ranges. In general I`d much rather have AK than JJ in this spot and am rather confused that others like JJ more.

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The problem with AK is if you flop TPTK with the K (and sometimes with an A), you have to go broke and someone will often have Aces or say, if the flop is A T 3, set of Tens will get your stack as it's pretty hard to get away...With Jacks it's easy to break an overpair if you flop a set obv and you can also get away if villain shows aggression on several streets or there are overcards.

At least, that's why i prefer having jacks there...