Bible Club: Exodus

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone believes God is an evil, spiteful being, the Bible will just reflect that belief back onto him. Or if someone believes God is a loving, compassionate being that belief will get reflected back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Total denial of what is, unless you don't expect you god to have a modicum of human morality and empathy. There is NO way to interpret the god of the bible as loving unless you are in total denial.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone believes God is an evil, spiteful being, the Bible will just reflect that belief back onto him. Or if someone believes God is a loving, compassionate being that belief will get reflected back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this. I mean, I certainly didn't have that opinion about God the first time I read the Bible. I was fairly indifferent about the whole thing, but definitely more sympathetic to Christianity than atheism. And then I read it, and that is what I saw. I don't see how I could have already been harboring this deep, dark presupposition of what God was like.

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone believes God is an evil, spiteful being, the Bible will just reflect that belief back onto him. Or if someone believes God is a loving, compassionate being that belief will get reflected back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this. I mean, I certainly didn't have that opinion about God the first time I read the Bible. I was fairly indifferent about the whole thing, but definitely more sympathetic to Christianity than atheism. And then I read it, and that is what I saw. I don't see how I could have already been harboring this deep, dark presupposition of what God was like.

[/ QUOTE ]
It also seems to contradict any claim of divine authorship or inspiration. If all the meaning comes from us, where is the input from God?

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question that hopefully NR will answer, although its obviously open to everyone. How does God's 'hardening of the Pharaoh's heart' jive with all of this free-will, God can't make a Bible that is more easily understood business? I mean, didn't he directly interfere with Pharaoh's free will, making it far harder for him to be moved by the displays? Of course he didn't FORCE him to be unmoved, but he did the next best thing. How much meddling with our free will is God allowed?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are a couple of answers (which you can google fairly easily if you really care), but i know that none of them will satisfy you (i can even admit they can be a bit reaching), so let's not waste everyone's time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waste everyone's time? Isn't this almost exactly the purpose of this thread? Sorry if I am too thick-headed and set in my ways for you, I guess?

[/ QUOTE ]

like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this attitude bizarre. You're basically saying that you know that the "answers" are so weak that they won't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Why then do you (presumably) accept them?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this attitude bizarre. You're basically saying that you know that the "answers" are so weak that they won't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Why then do you (presumably) accept them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the nice way to interpret what he is saying. The alternative is that the answers ARE convincing, I am just either too stupid to comprehend them or too dishonest and close-minded to accept them.

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this attitude bizarre. You're basically saying that you know that the "answers" are so weak that they won't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Why then do you (presumably) accept them?

[/ QUOTE ]

weak? i'm not sure where i said that. i said "far fetching", but the reason i say that is because a lot of times, in order to understand something in the bible, you must have at least some holistic understanding of the bible. In addition, in order for you guys to accept an answer, it basically has to be up to some standard that I do not think ANY answer (and actually to ANY question) will satisfy. So like i said, if you REALLY want an answer, do your own DD and try to find it yourself. I'll help you if you cant find it, but v's question is such a common question that a simple search in google will yield many answers you can look into. If none of them satisfy you, then why do you need to me rehash what you can already find online to only have you reject it outright? Like i said, waste of all of our time. Find an answer you would like to discuss, and we can discuss. Otherwise lets skip the unnecessary bickering, and just agree to disagree.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this attitude bizarre. You're basically saying that you know that the "answers" are so weak that they won't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Why then do you (presumably) accept them?

[/ QUOTE ]

weak? i'm not sure where i said that. i said "far fetching", but the reason i say that is because a lot of times, in order to understand something in the bible, you must have at least some holistic understanding of the bible. In addition, in order for you guys to accept an answer, it basically has to be up to some standard that I do not think ANY answer (and actually to ANY question) will satisfy. So like i said, if you REALLY want an answer, do your own DD and try to find it yourself. I'll help you if you cant find it, but v's question is such a common question that a simple search in google will yield many answers you can look into. If none of them satisfy you, then why do you need to me rehash what you can already find online to only have you reject it outright? Like i said, waste of all of our time. Find an answer you would like to discuss, and we can discuss. Otherwise lets skip the unnecessary bickering, and just agree to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure have wasted a lot of time in this thread. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[dknightx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
like i said, use google to find your answer, if you can find an answer you are satisfied with, then please post it here. I'm fairly certain you won't, so it seems pointless to spiral into another "agree to disagree" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this attitude bizarre. You're basically saying that you know that the "answers" are so weak that they won't convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced. Why then do you (presumably) accept them?

[/ QUOTE ]

weak? i'm not sure where i said that. i said "far fetching", but the reason i say that is because a lot of times, in order to understand something in the bible, you must have at least some holistic understanding of the bible. In addition, in order for you guys to accept an answer, it basically has to be up to some standard that I do not think ANY answer (and actually to ANY question) will satisfy. So like i said, if you REALLY want an answer, do your own DD and try to find it yourself. I'll help you if you cant find it, but v's question is such a common question that a simple search in google will yield many answers you can look into. If none of them satisfy you, then why do you need to me rehash what you can already find online to only have you reject it outright? Like i said, waste of all of our time. Find an answer you would like to discuss, and we can discuss. Otherwise lets skip the unnecessary bickering, and just agree to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure have wasted a lot of time in this thread. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i know =)

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
weak? i'm not sure where i said that. i said "far fetching", but the reason i say that is because a lot of times, in order to understand something in the bible, you must have at least some holistic understanding of the bible. In addition, in order for you guys to accept an answer, it basically has to be up to some standard that I do not think ANY answer (and actually to ANY question) will satisfy. So like i said, if you REALLY want an answer, do your own DD and try to find it yourself. I'll help you if you cant find it, but v's question is such a common question that a simple search in google will yield many answers you can look into. If none of them satisfy you, then why do you need to me rehash what you can already find online to only have you reject it outright? Like i said, waste of all of our time. Find an answer you would like to discuss, and we can discuss. Otherwise lets skip the unnecessary bickering, and just agree to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont know if it's just me, but I find it useful to hear what answers people here find acceptable or persuasive. Of course I can find answers elsewhere, but why bother posting anything then? When NotReady, RJT or txag007 give an answer I can fit it into the hundreds of other posts of theirs I've read and build up an idea of their position, rather than just a googled snippet which is unlikely to be completely satisfactory. Similarly with the atheists - I often have no clue what luckyme or madnak (for example) are talking about if I read a post of theirs in isolation, but taken as a group they have both given me profound insights.

I dont think this board is a good place to come for answers, but it is an excellent place to come for passionately defended positions, imo.