I turn a set and check-call

TheCount212 · #1 10-31-2007, 01:29 PM

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Isn't there a good chance he flopped a set and correctly puts you on an overpair? There's no way you can fold the river UI. Although you're behind A5 (and a much less likely 65 since he's tight), on the turn, you're ahead of the small sets as well as a tight passive AA/KK line (maybe not your game, but I see this with some frequency).

The turn card can't scare him that much, so I like a turn c/r followed by calling a 3-bet and c/c'ing the river, or b/c'ing the river if your turn c/r is just called.

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No offense to you personally.. but this is yet another example of "aggrobot" thinking... ignoring reads and information and forging ahead because "we have a set." This is level one thinking.

If the old villain is passive (and there is no reason to doubt the OP's highly detailed description) there is NO WAY he'd 4-bang a small set on the flop with a straightened board. Passives don't floor it when there's even the slightest chance of being behind. A passive would maybe raise and call a r/r at most.. but more likely a passive would even just call your flop bet and see what the turn brings.

Fear of folding is the number one attribute of, guess what? A fish/donkey. There are better spots to turn a set of tens than this. The most aggressive you can afford to be here, under these circumstances, is to c/c this to the river and lose less than you might have.

In other words, OP played the hand very well. The only slight mistake was arguably 3-banging the flop.. but then he probably wouldn't have gained the info from the 4bet and wouldn't have slowed down on the more expensive streets.

gobbledygeek · #2 10-31-2007, 01:44 PM

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If the old villain is passive (and there is no reason to doubt the OP's highly detailed description) there is NO WAY he'd 4-bang a small set on the flop with a straightened board.

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Tight passive old guys aren't completely stupid; they know they are ahead against a preflop raiser on this board almost every time when they've flopped a set. If they had of flopped a set on a TJQ board (say TT) then they'd be more likely to play it passively.

BadBigBabar · #3 10-31-2007, 01:51 PM

i would like more bets to go in on the big streets; preferably the turn. i think his range is lower sets more than it is made straight, in which case we're ahead a lot on the turn. i think c/r and call down a 3 is probably okay. i don't think b/3b is quite as good although it's more of a hunch than anything else because when 4 bets go in we're behind a lot.

Lethe · #4 10-31-2007, 03:55 PM

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i would like more bets to go in on the big streets; preferably the turn. i think his range is lower sets more than it is made straight, in which case we're ahead a lot on the turn. i think c/r and call down a 3 is probably okay. i don't think b/3b is quite as good although it's more of a hunch than anything else because when 4 bets go in we're behind a lot.

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BadBigBabar · #5 10-31-2007, 03:58 PM

there's also a small chance he has aa imo

DeuceKicker · #6 10-31-2007, 04:39 PM

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there's also a small chance he has aa imo

[/ QUOTE ]I think the entire hand hinges on how accurate OP's read is. If villain is really tight-passive, then he was most definitely behind on the flop, but most definitely ahead on the turn. If so, I also think the chances are very good villain has AA.

Aces McGee · #7 10-31-2007, 04:42 PM

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there's also a small chance he has aa imo

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This was my first thought.

-McGee

mntndrew · #8 10-31-2007, 02:01 PM

Things I believe to be true:

There are no hands that an actual tight player has that beat us on the turn.

If the player is a fairly loose cold caller, then A5s, 44-22 and other pocket pairs are in his range. When we're talking 65s, I think we're talking really loose.

If he is in fact really tight and really passive, he can hold AA-KK here.

A *relatively* tight passive player may get active with 44 on that flop. He has little reason to believe you have A5 or 65 and views you as a LAG. Just because he's passive against all the other passive players doesn't mean he doesn't realize how strong top set is against your EP raise.

Count, I think you play a little weak tight sometimes, you think I play a little aggrobot sometimes. Maybe we can learn something from each other.

TheCount212 · #9 10-31-2007, 04:29 PM

mtn, i most definitely plead guilty to having a weak-tight streak in me. I try to balance that tendency by playing decent cards and getting my good hands to showdown.. And I wasn't necessarily calling you an "aggrobot" (lol) personally.. just that there is a definite tendency of some to over-push value so thin that it's actually creating value for the opponent with a better hand.
But all told, I can probably learn more from aggrobots than they can from me. Yes, I have the "tight" part of TAG down cold.

Chris Daddy Cool · #10 10-31-2007, 05:54 PM

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Fear of folding is the number one attribute of, guess what? A fish/donkey.

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if i never folded an overpair in my life i think i would still do okay. certainly there are worse things that characterize a fish/donkey.

fear of calling is actually the number one attribute of mediocre winning players who are afraid to look stupid.