High Stakes Poker thread (11/5 - 500k buyin - Spoilers expected)

[Chilltown]

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How are you pretty sure he was a millionare before his win?

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Just from Wiki.

"Gold began his career in the entertainment business at 16 as an intern at the J. Michael Bloom & Associates Talent Agency. He became a talent agent before he was 21, but soon moved into management/production. Gold's clients have included Jimmy Fallon, Lucy Liu, James Gandolfini, Donnie Wahlberg, and Felicity Huffman, among others."

10-15% on those people alone would make him a millionaire. I know it's tough to not hate his soul and think the worst of everything about him but he had a life before poker.

[Joseph Hewes]

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He won 6M, plus his massive salary dealing with movie stars for his career.

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[celiholic]

i read half of this thread and it pretty much all junk ! credit for Private_Joker and JokersAttack for good insights, and share to all ppl. hsp is not jus entertainment poker, most ppl are just not good enough understand their plays in general. these are great great example for 2, 3, 4 levels of thinking thru-out each hand, if you are able to notice it.

fwiw

gold vs doyle hand:
- most good player at hsp read gold like a book, and gold = fish but not equal a donk. he usually jus talk about the big game, how he bluff blah blah blah, and he jus correct himself after seeing the hands afterward.. did u even seen him stone cold crai bluff...etc ? NEVER ! he only make small bluff which good players will call him with 3rd pair / no pair nut
- as most good poster note, doyle made a good fold imo. gold was extremetly strong, he was only playing his hand (0-level, flush = nut). doyle played a little deceptively, bet flop, overbet turn, gold never like never put doyle on the flush, i think he only put doyle on a set/pair and act like he is bluffin in his bet. doyle played good and somehow induce gold to overplay his hand. put 80-90% of 500bb+ deep with 3rd nut is not smart, reversed implied odd. gold played like he had the nut, and dolye was right, dolye also stated that he might fold a winner, but he can't do nothin cause gold are not good enough for doyle to understand him completely. so folding and find a better spot to stack the fish rather then gamble againts gold's range (q to 8 hi flush) is more +ev ?

antonio vs barry hand:
- barry played the hand wrong which induce antonio to slowroll, he didn't intent to do it and he seriously was finding a fold.
- barry was using his previous image to vb his 2 pair all the way, and was wrong about antonio's range (Axs), he wasn't aware that antonio was playing this tight.
- antonio was thinking on the 2-3 level, limp utg (tight image), a84 monotone, he c/c turn k, and barry STILL bet when q hit on river. antonio can easily have ak, aq w/ or without fl draw, set, etc. antonio was thinking what can barry vb here ? not much .. right ? fl, 2pair and set ! so .. but there is still too much combo for 2pair and set, that why he called.
- not raising is a good play, since barry was famous for crazy crai, 3 barrel, overbet bluff! POT CONTROL againts a unpredictable aggro tough player is not bad at all imo.

antonio was playing scare money(nit):
- players position matter alot in deep stack nl, look at who's seating beside antonio !!!


deep stack nl is not as esay as you think, set over set, flush over flush, in a 300bb+ game is not a cooler ! stack ppl with those setup is not automatic imo.

[KamiKatze]

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Okay im nice, here is the hand:

Blinds at 300$ / 600$ / 1200$, 100$ ante, minimum Buy-in: 500k $

Gold is UTG+1, calls 1200$, 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Brunson right to his left calls too, 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Esfandiari calls, Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Farha calls 900$ out of the SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Benyamine calls 600$ from the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Antonius checks with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop: [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]

4x checked to Brunson, who bets 6k$ into the 8k$ pot with 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Everyone folds to Gold who calls with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Turn: [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] [A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]

Gold checks
Brunson bets 25k$ into the 20k$ pot.

Gold feels very comfortable, "I came here to do one thing, to take down a big pot from Doyle." Kaplan says: "Yes, it's speech time." That speech continues until ...

Gold raises by 100k$ to 125k$.
Brunson asks: "Are you gonna show it to me, if i throw it away?"

Brunson folds, Esfandiari knows:" Doyle mucked a flush."

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[wazz]

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Can't be bothered to read the rest of the thread, got to the middle of the second page, but I just wanted to comment on the doyle vs gold hand. Some guy said 'if you're going to stack off with the 3rd nuts 400BB deep, you're probably a losing player', and I seriously LOL in your weak-tight face if you're so nitty that people always have a better hand when you get action that deep. In live games people regularly stack off with 1000BBs with one pair. I've won a 1200BB pot in live PLO for god's sake with one pair at showdown, all-in on the turn.

Secondly, regarding the specifics of the hand. It's pretty easy to discount any flush draw that includes the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in jamies' hand, given there's no way on earth he check-calls with a pair and a flush draw on the flop in late position. Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T x constitutes some small range of jamies hands as well - why should jamie put doyle on a flush draw if he's bet the flop? It would be a c/r for value against two pair/set etc and semibluffing should doyle have a flush. So Doyle should really be thinking that Jamie can only have one hand that beats his, the nuts, and against a spewtard like Gold (anyone who gives him one iota of poker competence, given what we've all seen, must be a losing player IMO), just shouldn't fold. The idea that he could fold any flush is absolutely laughable. Whether the best play on the turn is all-in or just call, I don't know, but I do know that I died a little inside when I saw brunson fold.

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I've heard people mention it's impossible for Jamie to have a flush with the Js in it multiple times this thread, because he would not have check/called with it. This is an interesting point, but at the same time, this is exactly what he did in the hand against Baxter and Safai when he had J8cc on the 7cAcJs board. Harman, Farha, Baxter all checked before Gold, who then checked. Safai then bet 4000 into an 8000 pot, baxter made it 14000, and gold flatted. Ok, its a multi way pot and he is facing a bet and a raise, but Baxter was playing pretty aggro, and was liable to be raising there with a fairly wide range. Anyway, as it turned out, Baxter checked the Kd turn, Gold bet 50k, and took the pot.

Anyway, is it not possibly for Jamie to attempt to trap Doyle on the flop with Jxss and set up a check raise on the turn? On the flop Farha, Benyamine and Antonius all checked before Gold, who also checked to Brunson who then bet. This is similar action as the first hand, when Gold checked his combo draw with only a couple of people to act. So as far as his flop check goes, that doesn't rule out the Jsxx.

As far as jsut calling the flop bet, I don't see any reason to suggest why Jamie would necessarily raise 100% of the time there. The only hand remotely similar sees Jamie flat the action on the flop to a raise from an ultra aggressive player that he could easily have repopped again, with lots of money in the pot already.

So basically I disagree that Jamie could not have Jxss in that hand.

As for your comments about Doyle not being able to muck *any* flush, I find this laughable. Given that Doyle, Antonio, and who knows else are correctly reading Jamie for alot of strength (based on tells, betting patterns, whatever) following his turn check-raise, what the hell can he have?

Ok, barry thought he hit broadway. I guess that is a possibility. A flush, though, IMO, is the only other, and significatly more probable option, due to more possible combinations. Also, Jamie's inability to value bet a straight on a flushed board last week shows that he does display considerable apprehension with straights on 3 flushed boards. Barry/Doyle may not have seen/known this, but for you, having seen and known this, to say that folding any flush there is bad, shows that it is you that is absolutely laughable.

Ok, Doyle's fold of the 10 high flush was very marginal. Had he had the six or eight high flush, it then would have been a great fold, right? Would you still be saying his fold was absolutely laughable?

Anyway why bother trying to lecture you, you're too busy stacking off for 1200big blinds in PLO with 1 pair.

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Stacking off for 1200 bb in PLO with 1 pair and being good. Just thought I'd make sure that didn't go unnoticed.

Re the hand, you bring up some good points. I might mention that I was referring to Gold when I made the point about folding any flush. I.e. he could have the 3 high flush and would check-call a blank river. If he was more balanced with his bets, he would probably block/value-bet a 3 high flush on the river for $150k.

As has been pointed out a few times before, yes, doyle made the right read, which I guess everyone did, that Gold was in fact strong and not bluffing, but that he overvalues any flush, and that's where Doyle made the mistake.

As to whether gold could have the J-flush, I take your point on. I still think Gold *would* be more aggro with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], i.e. to at least checkraise when it comes back to him, but he might play it that way.

Again, I take on your point about the six or eight flush. Like I said before, I don't consider it laughable for doyle to fold any flush, I meant that it would be laughable to consider the possibility of gold folding any flush, assuming the river doesn't pair.

As to whether it's -EV or marginally +EV, I dunnow, I still think it's +EV enough to want to call. Gold has shown in the past that his river bets are essentially nuts or bluffs, so doyle won't be facing a big river bet that often and can get to a relatively cheap showdown/bet for value.

The argument that he has position on the two fish at the table is quite a compelling one, though, and added to the the possibility of him only being on one bullet for the night and I can see the fold being 'correct'.

[Jazzy3113]

Just because someone is in Hollywood and has contact with big stars does not mean they are also well off. There is a big difference between what was said in the wiki post and how some of you are extrapolating it.

Jaime could have worked on a Sopranos episode and did some talent work for James G. and it would be correct to say James G. was at one time a client of his. I never read anything that said he exclusively represented such big stars.

Remember, he had to make a deal just to put up a measly 10k to enter the main event. Im not saying he was poor before the win, but to say he is a millionare and then have to sell half urself for 10k doesnt compute.

As to the doyle/gold hand, people can continue to post about how Doyle was playing above the rim and make a good fold, but I dont think that is the case.

They have all played with Jaime enough. Heck, we have seen this guy play for two seasons now and can see he is willing to stack of with AK on an ace high board. Only two flushes beat Doyle, and I think there is a strong chance Jaime has a set there as well. Overall, a fold is not the absolute worst play ever, but cmon it was not a good one. I dont think Doyle wanted such a huge pot early on. Even the best ones make mistakes.

[inyourface]

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Im not saying he was poor before the win, but to say he is a millionare and then have to sell half urself for 10k doesnt compute.

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I agree with what you say and I'm not being funny here but this argument has been brought up in every sponsorship thread - PA, Daniel N, all the Team Full Tilt, etc. etc. will have had their buyin's paid and the majority of them are millionaires many times over.

You don't have to be poor to look for a bargain.

[cpitt398]

We have no way to prove it, but if there was, I would be willing to bet Gold didn't have a ton of money before the WSOP.

Hollywood is all about self promotion, acting like you are rich and important. Gold was a loser in the 5/10 and 10/20 games so he had to have some money but as everyone here should know by now, it isn't always an indicator of how much you really have.

I dont know anything for sure just a guess. A Hollywood agent or whatever he was doesn't equal successful. My best friend in High School has been an actor in LA for 3 years (been on Las Vegas, Heroes, Standoff, Big Love, etc) and works security at the Skybar full time

[dinopoker]

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How are you pretty sure he was a millionare before his win?

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Just from Wiki.

"Gold began his career in the entertainment business at 16 as an intern at the J. Michael Bloom & Associates Talent Agency. He became a talent agent before he was 21, but soon moved into management/production. Gold's clients have included Jimmy Fallon, Lucy Liu, James Gandolfini, Donnie Wahlberg, and Felicity Huffman, among others."

10-15% on those people alone would make him a millionaire. I know it's tough to not hate his soul and think the worst of everything about him but he had a life before poker.

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You have a lot to learn about the entertainment business.

[aislephive]

Barely even skimmed the replies because this thread is so massive, butttttt I'll chime in with my thoughts.

1. Doyle's fold is bad, period. Jamie would play any flush the same way, and he is literally playing ANY TWO SUITED. He could also have QT, two pair, or air.

Here is how Doyle is doing against all flush combos. Please note that cards that are already in play either on the board or in doyle's hand are taken into account, so ignore the fact that they appear to be included in the calculation, they aren't.

Just against flushes, he is 53%. Add in straight, two pair, semibluff and complete air and we're doing very well against Jamie's range. As far as mistakes go, Doyle made a pretty costly one.

Jamie played exceptionally bad today, wtf is he doing in the KTs hand? It should be pretty obvious that DB is going to double barrell the turn with his entire range given the way the hand played out, at least that was my impression.

Overall it was a good episode though, some interesting hands and the table was pretty entertaining. Looking forward to next week.

Also, I don't mind the way Antonio played his AA postflop, and truth be told in this case he probably got maximum value by calling down than he would have by raising, because I don't think Barry is calling a raise anywhere.