Moving to LA to play pro @ commerce? (long)

[Heisenb3rg]

Hey B&M regs, I dont know if you guys read my posts but am a frequent poster on the 2+2 shorthanded forums and multitable 5/10-15/30 stars 6-max online for a living..
I have obtained a healthy winrate at these games just under 2BB/100 over 150k hands for the time ive been pro, so I have the tools to beat moderatly tough limit games.
Only reason I havent moved up is my relativly low bankroll and fear of variance.

I visited commerce for 2 weeks at the end of august and absolutly fell in love with the place.
Way better than any casino ive been to in so many ways..
I mostly played the 20/40 and 40/80, and these games were much softer than my local 20/40, which is much softer than the stars 10/20..

Ive been getting into a rut online with lack of motivation.. I find it very hard to put in hours anymore, because im spending so much time just alone on a computer which drains me psychologically.

I really need to move to a place where they spread soft 30/60+ games on a frequent basis so I can mix up playing online and live to keep me interested in this game.

LA sounds like the perfect canditate..

What im asking is for people who live in LA and play at the commerce professionally to share their experiences.
Compare it to other places?
How is the cost of living there (Im talking numbers, I know its high)?
Are the games getting tougher?
How do the 100/200 games compare to stars 10/20 SH?
Anyone moved from Canada to the states to play poker before?

Any insights at all would be really apreciated...
This applies to playing live pro in general as opposed to online.. So if you moved to vegas and now play live there.. Id be interested in your experiences as well..

Thanks!

[*TT*]

Heisenb3rg -

You should PM Andy Fox/PJ/Mike L/Donkey/Ryno, etc for some insight as well, its good to make friends with your 2+2 peers in real life. a few brief notes (not a lit of time to post a long thread, sorry)

1) Your going to crush the games in LA, no questions asked.
2) Playing live after playing online for so long is often a liberating experience.
3) Downswings live suck. I mean the really suck. Any bad feeling you ever had about swinging down online will be magnified because its so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
4) I am playing on a short bankroll now just like you are, in fact its so short that I stopped playing at my former limits live (40/80 to 60/120 average) and now only play lower-mid limit games live in the 8/16-15/30 range. I realized I cannot mentally fade the variance as well as I could playing 5/10 - 10/20 short handed online, so I re-routed my money to play online and kept only 100 or so BB for live games. every one is different, find the perfect balance for yourself - dont quit playing online!

5) LA taxes suck, they are very high. The realestate rental market is stable, but you wont find the quality of housing you are used to for similar prices. Driving in LA makes me want to slit my wrists. Groceries are expensive, but the wine is cheep and plentiful because its made in-state. Everyone in LA is a celeb, works in the industry, is sleeping with someone in the industry, or is a star-f**ker... you can choose to embrace that mentality or allow it to slowly get under your skin.

My advice - give it a shot for 3 months. Also consider playing in some bigger games if you can handle the swings and have the extra bank to make it happen, you will do just fine in 100/200 with your skill set.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]

3) Downswings live suck. I mean the really suck. Any bad feeling you ever had about swinging down online will be magnified because its so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.


[/ QUOTE ]

The longest I ever broke even online was 50k hands at 5/10 a long time ago. I thought it was the worst thing ever. I was very wrong.

Honestly you'll be making about the same live or online I assume and LA is like the worst place ever. I only play live because I'm a bad player and find online to be boring beyond words.

*edit*
I think TT is really understating how bad it is driving in LA. Keep in mind that I am only driving the freeway to and from San Diego/LA and never drive around town. I still want to murder everything in sight when I park at Commerce or get home.

[jkiddy07]

Playing live blows. Its nice to play every now and then, and I do agree that playing online is psychologically taxing, but having commerce's green felt finger nails, dozens and dozens of idiots roaming around, looking at the faces of people that are true degenerate gamblers is pretty taxing too. You also have to deal with all of the caricatures there, but live games are ridiculously soft, so I guess it can be worth it. I do like your approach of mixing b&r and online.

[HOWMANY]

Just be obsessive like me and wash your hands every hour or so.

[Six_of_One]

I played with you at Commerce in August (I was the one who suggested you talk to Archie about getting the player rate for your room). Obviously beating the games won't be an issue. Whether you can beat them for enough to keep you satisfied, I don't know...it depends what kind of income and lifestyle you're used to from your online play.

I feel like the 20/40 game has definitely gotten tougher in the past year. I remember you posting about how ridiculously easy the games were one night, when I had played with you the same night and felt like they were mediocre at best. It's all relative. They're still easily beatable, but it seems to me that the proportion of tougher players is a bit higher (there are a lot more 2+2ers than there used to be based on posts here, even though I don't know who many of them are). I'm hoping it's not a trend that will continue. I can't speak to the 40/80 game, because I haven't played it yet.

As for cost of living...it really depends on what your standards are. For an average 1-bedroom apartment in a decent area, expect to pay $1500/month. If you don't mind having roommates, you could pay something like $1000 for your share of a 2-bedroom, and have it be a nicer place too.

I don't think driving the freeways needs to be a very big issue for you. It sucks for people who have jobs with standard hours (like me, but fortunately I live 15 minutes from work), but as a poker player I assume you won't be commuting to Commerce at 8am. As long as you time it right, you can get there from a nice place near the beach in 30-35 minutes.

[Fnord]

I'll just add my token remark about poker being a terrible full-time job for all but the most sick and twisted of people, but it's an amazing part-time job or hobby. My life is best when I love my job and love my time at the table; and I wouldn't want to give up either.

[andyfox]

L.A.'s a big place. It's hard to be specific on cost of living because it varies from area to area. I own a loft in downtown L.A., right opposite Staples Center. It's 1400 square feet or so, two bathrooms, and I get $2,500/month in rent. There are houses near where I live that lease for $30,000 a month.

General cost of living in L.A. would qualify as "high." Gas is more expensive here than most other parts of the country. You need a car, there's simply no other way to get around. A recently published survey confirmed we have the worst traffic in the country. The expensive restaurants are as expensive as anywhere, but since we're a big, spread-out place, you can always find cheap eats if you know where to look.

My advice would be to come out and find an apartment in what seems like a decent, relatively convenient area. Do it for a while and see what you like and what you don't like. Check out other areas to see if you like them better, their affordability, and make a Commerce run a few times at rush hour. There are people who consider L.A. Paradise Found and others who consider it Hell.

You know what to expect in the Commerce 20-40 and 40-80 games since you played them. The 60-120 can sometimes be easier than the 40-80, depending on the day and time or day. The 100-200 is usually tougher. For a pro (I'm not one), I would think the best thing is the game selection. Plus you're very close to The Bike.

It doeesn't seem to me that the games are getting tougher, although it perhaps might be the case from 9AM to 1PM, but that would be the worst time to play in any event.

[tessarji]

It would be a disaster for you to move to LA, the last thing we need is more good players.

Oh, I just realized you don't care about helping my bankrools. In that case, consider the following before moving to LA:

Apartment + utilities + food + misc expenses will probably be an absolute minimum of $2.5k/mo. You'll need a car.

I think people are being silly about the driving thing, it's not that bad if you stay off the roads at all costs between 7-9 AM and 4-7 PM. As a professional poker player, that's actually pretty easy.

You'll need a 500BB bankroll to handle at least 40/80 and a few month's expenses. I wouldn't play 20/40 professionally, I don't think you'd enjoy just barely making ends meet.

The culture shock from Canada -> LA is going to be severe.

My best recommendation is this - find a buddy, a relative, anyone who lives in LA and stay with them while you try things out. Play live here for at least 4 weeks before making a final decision on whether to pull up stakes and move out.

[RunDownHouse]

Do you really think playing live will change your mindset on a permanent basis? If you think you're the type that will say, "I don't feel like driving all the way out there tonight, I'll just put in some hands online," you should probably think some more before you move out there.