Vick indicted by the feds

[vhawk01]

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If all of his beliefs are entirely coordinated and self-consistent, and he applies his axioms perfectly, then all you can do is "agree to disagree" and move on, because axioms aren't fair game.

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And since you can't possibly do this... Er...

My main point was that this digression is inappropriate for this forum. Sue me. I can be indirect. Secondarily, I offer that one may grow from trying to construe one's opponent's arguments as entirely consistent, your job being to see how and why he grants dispensations (as opposed to contradicting himself) rather than choose a level of abstraction that reduces his arguments to absurdity. This may or may not be a big insight. I'm not keeping score.

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"Granting dispensations" is really just an end-around, and all it really means is that what we are talking about isn't an axiom, its a special case, and these 'dispensations' are based on more basic principles, possibly core axioms. But you make a good point. I think that is exactly what is being asked when someone says "Well, you support X, but not Y, that seems hypocritical, whats up with that?" What they mean is, why the special dispensation? This is usually met with one of two responses. Either there is a very good reason for the special dispensation, and the person can easily explain it, OR, there really ISN'T a very good reason, its an inconsistency that the person hasn't really thought about before, and thus they get defensive, angry, and respond with things like "ZOMG WORST ANALOGY IN INTARWEBS HISTORY" or "Its questions like this that remind me how stupid the average 2+2er is."

I agree, no one perfectly applies their axioms in a rational manner. But thats what I try to do, and thats the entire point of debate and discussion. Finding out how best to apply what I believe is correct, figuring out where my biases lie, and so on.

However, the best point you made in your entire post was that SE isn't really the place for this. Much more fun just to flame Vick, because seriously, the guy seems like a huge dbag. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Cornell Fiji]

Shemp,
I was joking. ATF = about the forums.

[Vyse]

Can someone lock this?

[kyleb]

agreed

thanks a lot cornell

[Richard Tanner]

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agreed

thanks a lot cornell

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This thead needs more talk about:
**Vicks trade value.
Certainly he has some, though it's not much. The thing is that it's a HUUUUUUGE gamble. If he gets through this and is a free man, then a team just picked him up for super cheap (though he's not that great anyway). If he goes away, then it's a total waste obv.

**The Falcon's chances without him, but with his distraction
Certainly being asked "What would be different with Mike" 20 times a day for 16 weeks is going to take it's toll.

**What are the ripples across the NFL?
What does this do to Culpepper? Does he become a hotter item because the Falcons will be in dire need of someone other then Joey, or do the Falcons pull a "Bears-move" and ride there Rex Grossman into the ground.

Also, what this thread needs less of:
"But what's the difference between fighting animals and eating/hunting them". Take those threads/questions to SMP.

Cody

[MEbenhoe]

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Can someone lock this?

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I'd prefer not to. Sometimes threads just follow different tangents.

[Sluss]

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What does this do to Culpepper? Does he become a hotter item because the Falcons will be in dire need of someone other then Joey, or do the Falcons pull a "Bears-move" and ride there Rex Grossman into the ground.


[/ QUOTE ] The Super Bowl is the ground?

Obviously I'm joking because there is no facet of the Falcons team that is better than any other facet of the Bears team right now. Just had to get in my Rex defense.

For a serious reply, Joey Harrington has excelled in the Petrino system throughout mini-camp and the word is he looked much better than Vick in the system. He also was able to put together some good games with the Dolphins last year. With some improved confidence there is a shot he could be a serviceable QB, it's not his fault he started with the Lions. Obviously they are not going to ride him to the promise land, but he won't lead them to the #1 pick in next year's draft.

Until a decision is made on Vick, Cullpepper will not sign with them. Nor do I think he is a good signing. Of course that goes for every team in the league right now. Cullpepper is damaged goods.

[esad]

Post deleted by MEbenhoe

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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**Vicks trade value.
Certainly he has some, though it's not much. The thing is that it's a HUUUUUUGE gamble. If he gets through this and is a free man, then a team just picked him up for super cheap (though he's not that great anyway).

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if he gets traded, the other team would need to pick up his (ridiculous) contract. I don't think the Falcons would be able to give him away, unless Vick agrees to a massive restructuring. which he wouldn't do. The Falcons would take a ginormous cap hit if they released him now, so it's an awful situation for them.

(I'm not a cap expert, but that's my understanding)

parallel would be Manny Ramirez a few years ago, when any team could have 'traded' nothing for him, they just needed to pick up his contract. nobody would. and Manny was overpaid at the time, but he was still a top tier player. Vick is an average QB.

[esad]

And I think it is poll time