B&M Collusion

Alan3 · #1 09-28-2006, 01:52 AM

Over at the Poker Academy forums, someone calling themselves Jathan reveals his experience in colluding to win tournaments.

I'm just curious how much of this sort of thing 2+2ers are aware of. How can you recognize this type of play? Is there a way to exploit it to your advantage?

Shroomy · #2 10-02-2006, 10:14 AM

Alan,

Could you do me a favor, and post the text of the link.
I can not get to that site, it is blocked from work.

but from experience at my local B&M (hollywood hardrock) colusion abounds. Especially at the 500 sng's

Im sure I recognize a very small percentage of it.

The only way I have been able to exploit it is to tell one of them that if I see them and their partner at my table again I am going to ensure that they will need their partner to wipe their butt for them for the next 8 weeks while their arms are healing. (which got me an imediate glance at their partner who I didn't mention, which was what I was really looking for to be certain I was right) but It did have the effect of throwing off their game for the rest of the SNG (yet I still took fourth [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ) and havent had them sit with me again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mike · #3 10-02-2006, 11:53 AM

One reasonable approach is keep your knowledge to yourself because you usually can not prove someone is colluding unless they get or are really stupid so why go through the hassle.

Once you know who is colluding with whom you can either play your hands differently to take advantage of their colluding or give them no action. Your not giving any action forces others at the table give them less action.

DeuceKicker · #4 10-02-2006, 01:31 PM

The linked post wasn't about colluding as we normally think of it. It appears that the members of that forum arranged a sort of poker Ryder Cup, with a team of Euros taking on a team of Yanks.

Because of the team aspect of play, chip dumping--among the most heinous of tournament transgressions--appears to have been openly accepted as good team strategy.

Poker Royale has done a couple of (bad) team-oriented shows--men vs women, young guns vs wiley vets, etc... The idea in those shows was that everyone would play their best (no chip dumping or obvious soft-playing). I guess it depends on what rules are established at the start of the tournament.

Richter · #5 10-02-2006, 01:59 PM

http://www.poker-academy.com/forums/...pic.php?t=4627

DeuceKicker · #6 10-02-2006, 02:06 PM

I'm an idiot and/or have poor reading comprehension. I didn't notice that you were referring to Jathan's response in that thread.

I'm sure that type of cheating does go on, but I doubt this guy does it. He seemed like a blowhard idiot. I call BS on his story.

As for what adjustments can be made? In a SnG format, I'm not sure you could adjust enough to make up the lost edge.

GUMBY55 · #7 10-02-2006, 02:19 PM

What kind of a solution to team poker would work? This type clearly is collusional and would result in players making moves to further themselves AND their teammates.

What would work best is having a matchplay format with players only playing HU matches. In this format you could definitely decide on the winner by dishing out points for HU wins. Granted it would take a lot longer, but it would eliminate all doubt of collusion which is definitely how the Europeans played it. A 15x BB raise is what it took for them to fold? Holy Poop!

BBMW · #8 10-02-2006, 03:24 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

1). Collusion is not illegal. While it may be frowned on by the poker community, and the casinos will not allow it where they find it, even if it were proven, no one is going to jail.

2). Since the casinos don't have any money at risk, their level of interest in prevent it is fairly low. As long as it doesn't become blatent and pervasive enough to drive people out of the rooms, they don't care that much.

3). It is very difficult to prove. Unless the colluders are being pretty blatent, it's pretty hard to detect, let alone prove to the point where the house will 86 the offenders.

So given all that, is there a solution. I think this is pretty much a caveat emptor situation. If you think it's happening, move on.

satelliter · #9 10-02-2006, 03:46 PM

If you suspect collusion, speak up. Ask to see hands more. Demand to see hands that are checked down. Call the floor. Don't berate players who often do the above. If the floor doesn't act, post it and help get the room a bad rep. It is very hard to prove and does adversely affect the game.

Mike · #10 10-02-2006, 05:25 PM

Quite a bit different, thanks for your note.