200NL - KK preflop deep

[Jay Riall]

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Jay, do you expect the general 20/17 to stack off w/ JJ on this flop?

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Party Poker

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[SpecT]

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I think the river is a fold, he's (obv.) not valuebetting worse and I doubt he'll show up w/ a bluff very often (bad board to bluff at given action!). The betsize also looks really value-ish.

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This isn't ever jacks?

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or AQ? (hint hint)

edit- also

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If I call preflop it is to extract a cbet and disguise my hand a little, NOT because I'm scared to go broke with KK.

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im not scared of going broke with KK, but i think 4betting folds out everything we beat.

[Pete H]

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villain is a standard 20/17/3 reg. not much history between us. i wasn't sure what to do preflop because we're both so deep, i think if we 4bet he shoves AA/KK and folds everything else.

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If he really folds everything else besides KK/AA, he's far from standard 20/17 reg.

Mixing between call and 4-bet is fine with 100BB stacks, but with these stacks (we're not deep yet) I'm 4-betting this 100% of time.

[tufat23]

i'd have stacked myself somewhere. this looks bad

[All_Inn_Aces]

WHat would we put his call 4-bet range for as an unkown 20/17/3 ?

[ikestoys]

aaah its not even deep

flat calling is fine in pos

raise flop or bet turn hyayahchachah

[fees]

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2 questions -

if we 4bet are we calling a shove?

if we make it $100 on the flop are we calling a shove?

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yes and yes