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  #1  
Old 10-13-2007, 11:54 AM
luckyme luckyme is offline
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Default 99% of species are extinct

This is just a general probe. Granting it's truth ( and it's likely within reasonable range), what role could it play in various arguments, such as the necessity of protecting habitat, or biodiversity.
Or does it indicate ... X?

At first it seems to point to the incredible diversity achievable, but since species loses some of it's meaning when used over time spans, perhaps not quite as diverse as it seems. What say?

I don't know what scientific opinion is on the number of extant species on the planet at any one time. Has it changed much?

luckyme
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

Given that species don't actually exist, the idea of a species going extinct is a pretty strange statement. The distiction is little more valuable than an individual organism dying. Although I guess on an ecosystem level it has some value. Still, these things are incredibly tough to predict in terms of what to do and what not to do.

The best conclusion I have made in regards to all this is pushing for the ending of all violent territories, because they cause extreme destruction with the least sustainability; whereas state of nature, communal and private property are much better in terms of respect/care, sustainability, knowledge/understanding, etc.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2007, 01:09 PM
tame_deuces tame_deuces is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct


That's how nature works. There is no 'balance' in it and some species will die out and others will not. We might want to look at how our actions can alter ecosystems in a positive manner, but it can be fearfully complicated stuff to figure out - plenty of mistakes have been made in that regard (both on what is a positive manner and on how to do it).

Suffice to say we humans have altered and transformed our environment forcefully since we became more than hunter/gatherers and we will continue to do so.
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:16 PM
ALawPoker ALawPoker is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

[ QUOTE ]
We might want to look at how our actions can alter ecosystems in a positive manner, but it can be fearfully complicated stuff to figure out - plenty of mistakes have been made in that regard (both on what is a positive manner and on how to do it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, very complicated. Knowing what satisfies me though, and what things I consider desirable and undesirable, is pretty simple. And since we are a natural result of our eco system, would you agree that the things that tend to be desirable to us will tend to be best for the "system" as a whole?
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2007, 01:35 PM
btmagnetw btmagnetw is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

definitely higher.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2007, 01:35 PM
tame_deuces tame_deuces is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

[ QUOTE ]

Ya, very complicated. Knowing what satisfies me though, and what things I consider desirable and undesirable, is pretty simple. And since we are a natural result of our eco system, would you agree that the things that tend to be desirable to us will tend to be best for the "system" as a whole?

[/ QUOTE ]

To the extent that the system itself has no 'preference' I will agree with you.

But we're heading down murky waters if we accept the entire premise - which will ultimately end up at extreme social darwinism and the conclusion that there are no ethics, no rights, no nothing except for the rule of the strongest.
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2007, 01:57 PM
luckyme luckyme is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We might want to look at how our actions can alter ecosystems in a positive manner, but it can be fearfully complicated stuff to figure out - plenty of mistakes have been made in that regard (both on what is a positive manner and on how to do it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, very complicated. Knowing what satisfies me though, and what things I consider desirable and undesirable, is pretty simple. And since we are a natural result of our eco system, would you agree that the things that tend to be desirable to us will tend to be best for the "system" as a whole?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps that was the type of thought that has me wondering if there is such a thing as 'normal for the system'. Two years ( 2,000 years?) after the dinosaur wipeout, the planet likely had a comparatively low number of species on it. There were previous mega wipeouts also.

Niches seem to create species, specialists really. As long as the planet remains a environmentally diverse place, any non-total wipeouts will be temporary? Will they be as diverse over time?

Does the 99% extinct figure contribute anything in such discussions?

luckyme
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2007, 02:02 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

<font color="blue"> I don't know what scientific opinion is on the number of extant species on the planet at any one time. Has it changed much? </font>

I think this is the crux of it right here and why it's important to conserve natural habitats and preserve other species. There now exists a species (man), which is capable of eliminating enough other species that can cause real harm to the entire biosphere.
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2007, 03:39 PM
ALawPoker ALawPoker is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

[ QUOTE ]
But we're heading down murky waters if we accept the entire premise - which will ultimately end up at extreme social darwinism and the conclusion that there are no ethics, no rights, no nothing except for the rule of the strongest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why *aren't* we at "extreme social darwinism" right now? What does give us this sense of ethics and rights if not merely rational self-interest? I think the idea that we act in any way other than based on what's most desirable to us is responsible for many misconceptions, and thus problems.

"Ethics," as I've said before on this forum (not really sure who all agrees), is an empty word to me. It sort of strikes me the same as "species." Actions are actions. The consequence will determine the desirability. "Ethics" only exists when you seek to conveniently classify the merits of an action. But it's nothing more than an intangible recognition of what's tangibly desirable. Since humans share the same basic condition, you can reasonably say that ~all humans will consider some actions desirable or undesirable, and that we will effectively be able to defend what is best for our prosperity (by defending what is best for ourselves). It seems (since we share the same basic condition) you needn't have anything more than self-interest to come out with this result, and the sense of "ethics" and "rights" that you're looking for.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2007, 03:48 PM
foal foal is offline
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Default Re: 99% of species are extinct

[ QUOTE ]

"Ethics," as I've said before on this forum (not really sure who all agrees), is an empty word to me. It sort of strikes me the same as "species." Actions are actions. The consequence will determine the desirability. "Ethics" only exists when you seek to conveniently classify the merits of an action. But it's nothing more than an intangible recognition of what's tangibly desirable. Since humans share the same basic condition, you can reasonably say that ~all humans will consider some actions desirable or undesirable, and that we will effectively be able to defend what is best for our prosperity (by defending what is best for ourselves). It seems (since we share the same basic condition) you needn't have anything more than self-interest to come out with this result, and the sense of "ethics" and "rights" that you're looking for.

[/ QUOTE ]
ah, memories
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