Here's an interesting one for you guys...

[Trogdor!]

guys i think this thread is just a failed attempt at convincing people to call with T8s because nobody will call hes AA shove

[ama0330]

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guys i think this thread is just a failed attempt at convincing people to call with T8s because nobody will call hes AA shove

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Close. Actually wait, you're way off.

I ended up folding, but I realised afterwards that he doesn't have to be shoving THAT wide a range for a call to be +EV. Given that its obvious that I misclicked, I think his range is a whole lot wider than you think. I just thought it was interesting.

[RoyalFarmer]

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guys i think this thread is just a failed attempt at convincing people to call with T8s because nobody will call hes AA shove

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Close. Actually wait, you're way off.

I ended up folding, but I realised afterwards that he doesn't have to be shoving THAT wide a range for a call to be +EV. Given that its obvious that I misclicked, I think his range is a whole lot wider than you think. I just thought it was interesting.

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I agree with you. If he's smart enough and doesn't think you're a crazy guy who likes to raise 25 BB with big pairs, he simply has to put you on a missclick.
So his shove doesn't need a lot of backup, since he can ruin your pot-odds by pushing it in.
The only hand you might call are TT+ and AK, from his point of view. Since your range for a normal raise is much wider, Villain feels good with his move. I would do the same probably.

A call is still close and definitely not +EV.

[Nogatsira]

ama I'm at school right now so I don't have any programs here to calculate.
Get poker equilator (better then pokerstove): http://www.pokerstrategy.com/softwar...ilator_1_1.zip

You can put in an equity you need and then see a range etc.

[dirtylobster]

If he's half decent he realizes the blinds are yet to act and thus wouldn't shove that wide of a range here.

[Frosteater]

[ QUOTE ]
I ended up folding, but I realised afterwards that he doesn't have to be shoving THAT wide a range for a call to be +EV. Given that its obvious that I misclicked, I think his range is a whole lot wider than you think. I just thought it was interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You barely know eachother, from what I understand, is the missclick really that obvious?

I just assume it is, there is one thing, I really don't understand and which would make this - without any math involved - a clear fold for me:

If he knows you missclicked, he also knows you were going to raise anyways, because if you just wanted to call, a missclick is way more likely to produce a raise to $2. So you folded every hand up to this point and now you raise in MP. Ignoring the amount for a second, if he puts you on a missclick, I think he also has to put you on an above average hand. At this point he has precisely two options: fold and wait for a better opportunity or push and put pressure on you and the rest of the table. At least I think calling isn't an option here for him, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every half decent player should avoid a call here, it's on quarter of the stack in and probably zero FE against everyone who comes along. Now I'm taking a shot in the dark and postulate the following:

If someone is dominant/aggressive/"cool" enough to 3bet-push a range containing the likes of 22 and AJo against a missclicked but apparently decent hand, I'd personally expect him to 3bet this range in position against a standard raise as well.

If the 14/10/2 over 56 hands is any indication of his play, I just don't think he's the type of player to do this.

[hennnerz]

Why would you misclick to $25? Misclick to like 30-40 is way more realistic. I doubt anyone will ever be in this 25$ PFR scenario.

[scallop]

Agreed that a call is close, and even if it's only slightly -EV I would still call, because this does SO much for my image when I stack off AIPF with T8s, (or even win the hand, which might induce tilt).

I think the advertising advantaes of this call are huge as people will open up their ranges massively vs you in the future.

[dirtylobster]

On FTP if you press the slidebar somewhere in the middle you could probably hit 25. And it happens once in a while when you miss the pot button and quickly press raise afterwards.

[zooot]

equity
Hand 0: 37.634% { Ts8s }
Hand 1: 62.366% { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+ }


I get this range for Neutral EV: { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+ }

This is way off vs. panda's range for Neutral EV: { 22+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

I think the latter is a much more likely scenario obv, but am confused by my results...

edit: i guess you're just starting w/ a reasonable range and going from there, whereas i'm using the slider? anyways, interesting as he could very well be shoving the second range and nowhere near the first.